Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB  
Author Message
cwade23





PostPosted: Thu Jun 23 04:11:45 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB

As some of you know, I've recently been taking an active interest in the
problems 'traditional' VB developers are having with VB support (or lack
thereof) by Microsoft. As we shall be leading on this story in July, I
contacted VB product manager, Jay Roxe, and asked if he would answer some
questions by way of an 'mail interview' which I would email him.


question and I'm happy to take a look at these."

I subsequently emailed him twice and had no response. Eventually I was
forced to pursue him via the MS PR department. Today I had a reply from a PR
person (no, Jay didn't even have the courtsey to reply in person) saying:

"I appreciate your candid questions, but feel they are too leading and
accusatory, and will force Jay to sound defensive in his answers. As you
know, the VB6 and VB.NET debate is a hot topic now, and Microsoft does not
want to support an interview that will only inflame the debate without
providing customers the information they need. Please let me know if you're
OK with making these questions less leading. If not, I'm afraid we will have
to decline this request."

Can you believe this! He'll condescend to answer my questions only if I
write questions that he likes!!!!!!

In more thn 20 years of journalism, this is the most feeble and insulting
brush-off I've ever encountered! Frankly, I think it's a disgrace.

Suffice to say we shall publish our questions online and shall continue to
find someon of seniority in Microsoft who is prepared to answer our ctual
questions rather than demand that we ask new ones. If anyone of seniority
reads this newsgroup, please feel free to make contact.

best wishes
Huw Collingbourne
================================
Bitwise Magazine
www.bitwisemag.com
www.rantsandraves.co.uk
Dark Neon Ltd.
================================

Visual Studio188  
 
 
Rick





PostPosted: Thu Jun 23 04:11:45 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB > As some of you know, I've recently been taking an active interest in
the
> problems 'traditional' VB developers are having with VB support (or
lack
> thereof) by Microsoft. As we shall be leading on this story in July, I
> contacted VB product manager, Jay Roxe, and asked if he would answer
some
> questions by way of an 'mail interview' which I would email him.
>

> question and I'm happy to take a look at these."
>
> I subsequently emailed him twice and had no response. Eventually I was
> forced to pursue him via the MS PR department. Today I had a reply
from a PR
> person (no, Jay didn't even have the courtsey to reply in person)
saying:
>
> "I appreciate your candid questions, but feel they are too leading and
> accusatory, and will force Jay to sound defensive in his answers. As
you
> know, the VB6 and VB.NET debate is a hot topic now, and Microsoft does
not
> want to support an interview that will only inflame the debate without
> providing customers the information they need. Please let me know if
you're
> OK with making these questions less leading. If not, I'm afraid we
will have
> to decline this request."
>
> Can you believe this! He'll condescend to answer my questions only if
I
> write questions that he likes!!!!!!
>
> In more thn 20 years of journalism, this is the most feeble and
insulting
> brush-off I've ever encountered! Frankly, I think it's a disgrace.
>
> Suffice to say we shall publish our questions online and shall
continue to
> find someon of seniority in Microsoft who is prepared to answer our
ctual
> questions rather than demand that we ask new ones. If anyone of
seniority
> reads this newsgroup, please feel free to make contact.

Amazing! I particularly liked the "VB6 and VB.NET debate is a hot topic
now" line... Well, duh, who woulda thought?<g>

Rick

 
 
Andrew





PostPosted: Thu Jun 23 04:32:03 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB

>As some of you know, I've recently been taking an active interest in the
>problems 'traditional' VB developers are having with VB support (or lack
>thereof) by Microsoft. As we shall be leading on this story in July, I
>contacted VB product manager, Jay Roxe, and asked if he would answer some
>questions by way of an 'mail interview' which I would email him.
>

>question and I'm happy to take a look at these."

<Snip>


You can't help but feel that Microsoft have got too big for their own
good (and the rest of us). Its like a sales person selling you a new car
and then saying we are not going to service it or repair it when things
go wrong.

Whatever happened to the Philosophy that "The Customer Is Always Right"
! Not wishing to start another debate but, you can't help but feel that
Microsoft's Philosophy is "Screw The Customer" !

Here's an idea !

If Microsoft really don't give a dam about the millions of existing
customers using VB6; Why don't Microsoft do us all a favour and make the
VS6 source code (in particular VB6) into the Open Source arena so that a
SourceForge or Code Project type team of developers could pick-up the
reigns ?


>Huw Collingbourne
>================================
> Bitwise Magazine
> www.bitwisemag.com
> www.rantsandraves.co.uk
> Dark Neon Ltd.
>================================

BTW, not bad for a first issue of the new magazine. Keep up the good
work as we will be watching ...

--


ZAD Software Systems Web : www.zadsoft.com
 
 
Larry





PostPosted: Thu Jun 23 08:05:49 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB


> "I appreciate your candid questions, but feel they are too leading and
> accusatory, and will force Jay to sound defensive in his answers.
>
> Can you believe this! He'll condescend to answer my questions only if I
> write questions that he likes!!!!!!
>
> In more thn 20 years of journalism, this is the most feeble and insulting
> brush-off I've ever encountered! Frankly, I think it's a disgrace.


I think it is perfectly acceptable to have you phrase the questions in a
better light. Questions can be leading and accusatory, so I would feel
they have every right to ask you to rephrase the questions, or go without
the interview.

For the case in point examples:

Have you stopped beating your wife yet? Did you forget to buy the
batteries for her ****?

As you can see, a person would have to go on the defensive, no matter
what they say. Who wants to do that?

I would suggest one option you have is to define the topic you want to
addressed (migration of code and developers) and include a few bullet
points if you have specific issues you want addressed, and then ask them
for a Q/A formated reply that you can publish.

You get the interview, with the topic you want covered, and they get to
word the questions in a manner they are comfortable with. The way I
see it, (just like anybody reading your post here) they don't have to
provide a reply if they don't want to....

LFS



 
 
Huw





PostPosted: Thu Jun 23 08:19:46 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB > I think it is perfectly acceptable to have you phrase the questions in a
> better light. Questions can be leading and accusatory, so I would feel
> they have every right to ask you to rephrase the questions, or go without
> the interview.
>

I profoundly disagree, Larry. Pre-vetted questions are the stuff of shoddy
journalism. I would never agree to such a thing. Nor would any journalist
who values his or her reputation.

> For the case in point examples:
>
> Have you stopped beating your wife yet? Did you forget to buy the
> batteries for her ****?
>

If my questions were that crass, it would be a very simple matter for a
Microsoft spokesperson to frame a response in which the flaws and biases of
my argument were refuted. I'm sorry but I agree to give Jay Roxe absolute
freedom to answer my questions any way he wants. I do not give him the
freedom to tell me which questions he'd like to answer.

>
> I would suggest one option you have is to define the topic you want to
> addressed (migration of code and developers) and include a few bullet
> points if you have specific issues you want addressed, and then ask them
> for a Q/A formated reply that you can publish.
>

Sorry, but that's a copout. I want real answers to real questions not just a
regurgitation of some PR document. I've sent him a list of perfectly good
questions. Those are the ones I'd like answered. He agreed to my interview
in the first place. I would like him to honour that agreement.

> You get the interview, with the topic you want covered, and they get to
> word the questions in a manner they are comfortable with. The way I
> see it, (just like anybody reading your post here) they don't have to
> provide a reply if they don't want to....

Tht's fine. I will publish my questions and everyone can then come to their
own conclusions as to whether or not Microsoft should answer them. If my
questions are unfair or misleading, I have no problems at all with Jay Roxe
or some other senior commentator from Microsoft addressing their concerns.
However, I still find myself incredulous that they are seriously suggesting
that I should write easier, nicer questions. I mean, I suppose the ultimate
solution would be to ask Mr Roxe to let me know the list of questions which
he would like to answer!

No, that simply isn't going to happen.

best wishes
Huw Collingbourne
================================
Bitwise Magazine
www.bitwisemag.com
www.rantsandraves.co.uk
Dark Neon Ltd.
================================


 
 
Tim





PostPosted: Thu Jun 23 08:22:45 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB


> Can you believe this! He'll condescend to answer my questions only if
> I write questions that he likes!!!!!!
>
> In more thn 20 years of journalism, this is the most feeble and
> insulting brush-off I've ever encountered! Frankly, I think it's a
> disgrace.
>

Huw,

I can't imagine why you're taking it personally. It's just business.
Microsoft is good at covering their assets, especially since the US and
European antitrust suits. With 20 years of experience, I'm surprised
this raised your ire.

I have to wonder if you aren't trying to get the members of this group
riled. It's not often I see experienced journalists use a six
exclamation point declaration. I love that you're addressing this
topic, but I wonder if it can be done without the outrage.

 
 
Huw





PostPosted: Thu Jun 23 08:36:15 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB > With 20 years of experience, I'm surprised
> this raised your ire.
>

In all honesty, this is the first time that anyone has suggested that they
should be allowed to dictate the questions that I ask them. I think what
annoys me most is the assumption that any professional journalist would
accede to such a request.

> I have to wonder if you aren't trying to get the members of this group
> riled.

Far from it. The only reason I decided to go for this interview in the first
place is because members of this group wrote to tell me how riled they
already were. Many of the questions I posed to Mr Roxe have been posed
elsehere but left unanswered. I thought this would be an opportunity for
Microsoft to address some of the issues that are affecting many VB
developers. It had not occurrd to me that they would agree and then change
their minds when they realised that I wasn't just going to be content with
asking easy-to-answer questions.

> It's not often I see experienced journalists use a six
> exclamation point declaration.

This is a first for me.

best wishes
Huw Collingbourne
================================
Bitwise Magazine
www.bitwisemag.com
www.rantsandraves.co.uk
Dark Neon Ltd.
================================


 
 
Bob





PostPosted: Thu Jun 23 08:38:13 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB

> As you know, the VB6 and VB.NET debate is a hot topic now, and Microsoft
> does not want to support an interview that will only inflame the
> debate without providing customers the information they need.

I don't see it as them not wanting to provide the information that customers
need so much as them not wanting to provide the product that customers need
and still clinging to the hope that if they say nothing the whole debate
will blow over. Sadly, they may be right about that but it'll be because VB
developers got tired of waiting and moved on to a vendor with less hubris.

--
Reply to the group so all can participate
VB.Net: "Fool me once..."

 
 
Duane





PostPosted: Thu Jun 23 08:40:19 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB
...
> "I appreciate your candid questions, but feel they are too leading and
> accusatory, ...

Well, are they leading and accusatory???

Hard to judge w/o knowing what they are and how they <are> worded...

Many interviewers tend to do that, almost unconsciously, I think. Have
you had anyone else review/comment on the list?
 
 
Al





PostPosted: Thu Jun 23 08:45:02 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB

> > With 20 years of experience, I'm surprised
> > this raised your ire.
> >
>
> In all honesty, this is the first time that anyone has suggested that they
> should be allowed to dictate the questions that I ask them. I think what
> annoys me most is the assumption that any professional journalist would
> accede to such a request.
>
> > I have to wonder if you aren't trying to get the members of this group
> > riled.
>
> Far from it. The only reason I decided to go for this interview in the first
> place is because members of this group wrote to tell me how riled they
> already were. Many of the questions I posed to Mr Roxe have been posed
> elsehere but left unanswered. I thought this would be an opportunity for
> Microsoft to address some of the issues that are affecting many VB
> developers. It had not occurrd to me that they would agree and then change
> their minds when they realised that I wasn't just going to be content with
> asking easy-to-answer questions.
>
> > It's not often I see experienced journalists use a six
> > exclamation point declaration.
>
> This is a first for me.
>
> best wishes
> Huw Collingbourne
> ================================
> Bitwise Magazine
> www.bitwisemag.com
> www.rantsandraves.co.uk
> Dark Neon Ltd.
> ================================
>
>

Huw,

Why don't you post the questions here and maybe we can help you tweak the questions a bit so that maybe someone at MS will answer
them. OTOH, we may find that the questions are totally reasonable and should be answered as is.

--

Al Reid


 
 
Al





PostPosted: Thu Jun 23 08:46:36 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB

> ...
> > "I appreciate your candid questions, but feel they are too leading and
> > accusatory, ...
>
> Well, are they leading and accusatory???
>
> Hard to judge w/o knowing what they are and how they <are> worded...
>
> Many interviewers tend to do that, almost unconsciously, I think. Have
> you had anyone else review/comment on the list?

Duane,

Good point. I just asked Huw to post the questions here so that we may provide input.

--

Al Reid


 
 
Huw





PostPosted: Thu Jun 23 09:01:23 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB



> ...
>> "I appreciate your candid questions, but feel they are too leading and
>> accusatory, ...
>
> Well, are they leading and accusatory???
>
> Hard to judge w/o knowing what they are and how they <are> worded...

They'll be published on July 1st. If I receive any response from MS, that
will be published too. Some questions are purely technical, others address
MS's lack of support from VB developers and I suspect it is these which they
wish not to answer. I would be happy to admit that my questions do not pull
their punches. Then again, I would not have expected the replies to pull
their punches either. This was never intended to be a polite chat amongst
chums. It was intended to be a serious debate about serious issues. People's
livelihood is being affected by Microsoft's decisions on the future (or lack
of future) of the VB6 productline. Surely they can't expect an interview on
the subject to ****foot around the difficult issues? If Microsoft deems my
questions to be leading and accusatory they should say so in their answers
to those questions. I guarantee that I will not edit their answers. So if my
questions are unfair, unjust, impolite, biased, rude, ill informed or have
any other qualities to which Microsoft objects, they may say so. I don't
consider my job to ask questions which are to the liking of the interviewee.
I consider it my job to ask questions which are of value to my readers. I
would have expected Micropsft to value the users of their products as much
as I value my readers and, that being so, would have been keen to answer my
questions - even if only to dispell my "leading and accusatory"
misconceptions. I am still hoping that someobody in Microsoft will do so.

best wishes
Huw Collingbourne
================================
Bitwise Magazine
www.bitwisemag.com
www.rantsandraves.co.uk
Dark Neon Ltd.
================================


 
 
Duane





PostPosted: Thu Jun 23 09:37:24 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB
>
...
> ...Surely they can't expect an interview on
> the subject to ****foot around the difficult issues?

No, but they can (and apparently have) choose not to play...and, of
course, journalism is rife w/ precisely such staged/choreographed
interviews.

> ...I don't
> consider my job to ask questions which are to the liking of the interviewee.
> I consider it my job to ask questions which are of value to my readers.

And MS Publicity/Marketing considers it their job to try to make sure
that the message they send is the one they consider advantageous to
them. It is, after all, purely a business strategy decision.

> I would have expected Micropsft to value the users of their products as much
> as I value my readers and, that being so, would have been keen to answer my
> questions - even if only to dispell my "leading and accusatory"
> misconceptions. I am still hoping that someobody in Microsoft will do so.

I think you're incredibly naive in the conception...that's a journalism
school rhetorical question/answer position virtually <never> found in
the real world.
 
 
Huw





PostPosted: Thu Jun 23 09:53:32 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB > that's a journalism
> school rhetorical question/answer position virtually <never> found in
> the real world.

Fortunately I didn't go to journalism school. I have, however, conducted a
number of forthright interviews in the past and always received forthright
answers. As for the charge of naivety, I might equally argue that Microsoft
is being naive in thinking that I will give up so easily ;-) I am a little
more tenacious than that.

best wishes
Huw Collingbourne
================================
Bitwise Magazine
www.bitwisemag.com
www.rantsandraves.co.uk
Dark Neon Ltd.
================================


 
 
Duane





PostPosted: Thu Jun 23 10:09:24 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB
>
> > that's a journalism
> > school rhetorical question/answer position virtually <never> found in
> > the real world.
>
> Fortunately I didn't go to journalism school. I have, however, conducted a
> number of forthright interviews in the past and always received forthright
> answers. As for the charge of naivety, I might equally argue that Microsoft
> is being naive in thinking that I will give up so easily ;-) I am a little
> more tenacious than that.

Well, good luck, but I expect it's unlikely that once you MS official
communication channels have been alerted there will be any capitulation
on their side. You <might>, w/ negotiation, achieve at least some of
your objectives.
 
 
Rick





PostPosted: Thu Jun 23 10:43:26 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB > .... Surely they can't expect an interview on the subject to
> ****foot around the difficult issues? If Microsoft deems my
> questions to be leading and accusatory they should say so
> in their answers to those questions.

Exactly! I was just concocting a response to one of the other posters
that said exactly this before my system crashed. My follow-up to this
was going to be that Microsoft could respond something like this...

"I find that question to be unfortunately worded and, as
such, an attempt to answer it directly might give your
readers an incorrect view of our position on this matter.
However, if I might try to address what I think is the
underlying point you are trying to get at..."

after which they could say ANYTHING they want and not be viewed as
dodging the question. In a personal interview, you, as the interviewer,
would be expected to press whatever point you were actually trying to
get to; but in a written (questionnaire) style interview, which your
original post hinted this was, the method of redirecting the question I
just suggested would be ideal. What surprises me is that Microsoft has a
lot of high-paid public relations people who should have been able to
create answer to deflect and hostile intent they might have perceived in
your questions. That they didn't indicates to me they know, perhaps in
an after the fact way, that their decision was an outright mistake and
that they don't really know how to recover from it (without their
apparently losing some kind of perceived "face").

Rick

 
 
Bob





PostPosted: Thu Jun 23 10:56:29 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB




>> ...
>>> "I appreciate your candid questions, but feel they are too leading
>>> and accusatory, ...
>>
>> Well, are they leading and accusatory???
>>
>> Hard to judge w/o knowing what they are and how they <are> worded...
>
> They'll be published on July 1st.

You may want to consider posting them earlier and getting the feedback from
the group. If the questions really are biased then you can consider
revising and resubmitting them. If that gets an actual response from MS
then everybody is better off.

OTOH, if the questions really aren't so much biased as expressing the very
real concerns of the VB development community then getting feedback to that
effect may push MS to respond also.

Worst case is that the questions are generally viewed as needing answers and
MS still refuses to respond and that is a story in and of itself.

--
Reply to the group so all can participate
VB.Net: "Fool me once..."

 
 
Bob





PostPosted: Thu Jun 23 11:07:02 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB

>> .... Surely they can't expect an interview on the subject to
>> ****foot around the difficult issues? If Microsoft deems my
>> questions to be leading and accusatory they should say so
>> in their answers to those questions.
>
> Exactly! I was just concocting a response to one of the other posters
> that said exactly this before my system crashed.

<tinfoilhat>
and you think that's a coincidence? <g>
</tinfoilhat>

<cut>
> after which they could say ANYTHING they want and not be viewed as
> dodging the question.

Well... they would probably still be viewed as dodging the question but I
agree that it'd still be better than just refusing to respond at all. As it
stands the only conclusion I can draw is that they can't even pretend to
answer the questions and must realize that there was no justification for
killing off the VB language.

I'd still like to see the questions though to see if they weren't the "when
did you stop beating your wife" kind.

--
Reply to the group so all can participate
VB.Net: "Fool me once..."

 
 
Al





PostPosted: Thu Jun 23 11:09:00 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB





> >> ...
> >>> "I appreciate your candid questions, but feel they are too leading
> >>> and accusatory, ...
> >>
> >> Well, are they leading and accusatory???
> >>
> >> Hard to judge w/o knowing what they are and how they <are> worded...
> >
> > They'll be published on July 1st.
>
> You may want to consider posting them earlier and getting the feedback from
> the group. If the questions really are biased then you can consider
> revising and resubmitting them. If that gets an actual response from MS
> then everybody is better off.
>
> OTOH, if the questions really aren't so much biased as expressing the very
> real concerns of the VB development community then getting feedback to that
> effect may push MS to respond also.
>
> Worst case is that the questions are generally viewed as needing answers and
> MS still refuses to respond and that is a story in and of itself.
>
> --
> Reply to the group so all can participate
> VB.Net: "Fool me once..."
>

Bob,

I agree with you. I made a similar suggestion a couple of hours ago.

--

Al Reid


 
 
Dan





PostPosted: Thu Jun 23 11:09:43 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB



>>
> ...
>> ...Surely they can't expect an interview on
>> the subject to ****foot around the difficult issues?
>
> No, but they can (and apparently have) choose not to play...and, of
> course, journalism is rife w/ precisely such staged/choreographed
> interviews.

PMJI but if you're going to pick your own questions, what function does an
interviewer perform and how would the interview be any different than a
press release?

It is certainly their choice as to whether or not to be interviewed. It
seems a bit nutty to give them control of the questions though. Refusal of
the interview is an answer itself IMHO. To agree to talk, then disappear
into the smoke without the courtesy of real communication is just plain
rude.

>> ...I don't
>> consider my job to ask questions which are to the liking of the
>> interviewee.
>> I consider it my job to ask questions which are of value to my readers.
>
> And MS Publicity/Marketing considers it their job to try to make sure
> that the message they send is the one they consider advantageous to
> them. It is, after all, purely a business strategy decision.

Well, it worked for Michael Jackson. Or did it?

Dan


 
 
Paul





PostPosted: Thu Jun 23 11:15:58 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB






¤ >> ...
¤ >>> "I appreciate your candid questions, but feel they are too leading
¤ >>> and accusatory, ...
¤ >>
¤ >> Well, are they leading and accusatory???
¤ >>
¤ >> Hard to judge w/o knowing what they are and how they <are> worded...
¤ >
¤ > They'll be published on July 1st.
¤
¤ You may want to consider posting them earlier and getting the feedback from
¤ the group. If the questions really are biased then you can consider
¤ revising and resubmitting them. If that gets an actual response from MS
¤ then everybody is better off.
¤
¤ OTOH, if the questions really aren't so much biased as expressing the very
¤ real concerns of the VB development community then getting feedback to that
¤ effect may push MS to respond also.
¤
¤ Worst case is that the questions are generally viewed as needing answers and
¤ MS still refuses to respond and that is a story in and of itself.


If the questions were to be posted here they should also be cross posted to dotnet.languages.vb.


Paul
~~~~
Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)
 
 
Duane





PostPosted: Thu Jun 23 11:13:55 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB
...
> Well... they would probably still be viewed as dodging the question but I
> agree that it'd still be better than just refusing to respond at all. As it
> stands the only conclusion I can draw is that they can't even pretend to
> answer the questions and must realize that there was no justification for
> killing off the VB language.

Oh, I think it's simply a case of Corporate has made a decision and
Publicity and Marketing having their "marching orders" which is to not
respond except on terms they see as favorable to their corporate
position. It's typical news control ime.

> I'd still like to see the questions though to see if they weren't the "when
> did you stop beating your wife" kind.

Would seem advantageous to all concerned if Huw could bring himself to
get some collaboration he might be able to get off "top dead
center"...maybe some of you guys who have real assets/in-depth knowledge
could somehow do that offline w/ him since I can understand a reluctance
to post all publicly prior to publication--it loses him his competitive
position, too, so to speak...
 
 
Dan





PostPosted: Thu Jun 23 11:21:42 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB Hi Bob,

That's a thought, but I think most real "interviews" need to have the
interviewer follow gaps in answers with other questions. I almost laugh out
loud at scripted interviews (usually in the political season) in which the
interviewee answers a totally different question than was asked. A good
interviewer will pointedly re-ask the same question (maybe in a slightly
different way) and point out that the previous response didn't address the
question.

In addition, posing the questions ahead of time does not lead to "an
interview with xxxx", it provides the response of the marketeer group that
worked for a week on the question.

Sometimes it's important to actually show what folks are thinking (assuming
they're thinking, that is).

Frankly, I'd love to see a real interview conducted by someone with actual
knowledge of the issues, with someone higher up the VB food chain.
Likewise, with somebody up the Office food chain. Then I'd like to see
someone compare notes.

Oh, wait. I'm daydreaming again. Back to work.

Dan









>>> ...
>>>> "I appreciate your candid questions, but feel they are too leading
>>>> and accusatory, ...
>>>
>>> Well, are they leading and accusatory???
>>>
>>> Hard to judge w/o knowing what they are and how they <are> worded...
>>
>> They'll be published on July 1st.
>
> You may want to consider posting them earlier and getting the feedback
> from
> the group. If the questions really are biased then you can consider
> revising and resubmitting them. If that gets an actual response from MS
> then everybody is better off.
>
> OTOH, if the questions really aren't so much biased as expressing the very
> real concerns of the VB development community then getting feedback to
> that
> effect may push MS to respond also.
>
> Worst case is that the questions are generally viewed as needing answers
> and
> MS still refuses to respond and that is a story in and of itself.
>
> --
> Reply to the group so all can participate
> VB.Net: "Fool me once..."
>


 
 
Duane





PostPosted: Thu Jun 23 11:22:27 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB
>
...
> PMJI but if you're going to pick your own questions, what function does an
> interviewer perform and how would the interview be any different than a
> press release?

If one gives up complete freedom, granted...I addressed that elsewhere
more throughly and didn't intend to imply it was an "all or none"
choice.

> It is certainly their choice as to whether or not to be interviewed. It
> seems a bit nutty to give them control of the questions though. Refusal of
> the interview is an answer itself IMHO. To agree to talk, then disappear
> into the smoke without the courtesy of real communication is just plain
> rude.

That's true although I suspect what happened was that when the questions
were of a type/tone/subject that brought on a review by Corporate the
lid was clamped down and he was barred from responding directly in order
to maintain control over anything that <was> said.
 
 
Bob





PostPosted: Thu Jun 23 11:37:18 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB

> Hi Bob,
>
> That's a thought, but I think most real "interviews" need to have the
> interviewer follow gaps in answers with other questions. I almost
> laugh out loud at scripted interviews (usually in the political
> season) in which the interviewee answers a totally different question
> than was asked. A good interviewer will pointedly re-ask the same
> question (maybe in a slightly different way) and point out that the
> previous response didn't address the question.
>
> In addition, posing the questions ahead of time does not lead to "an
> interview with xxxx", it provides the response of the marketeer group
> that worked for a week on the question.
>
> Sometimes it's important to actually show what folks are thinking
> (assuming they're thinking, that is).
>
> Frankly, I'd love to see a real interview conducted by someone with
> actual knowledge of the issues, with someone higher up the VB food
> chain. Likewise, with somebody up the Office food chain. Then I'd
> like to see someone compare notes.
>
> Oh, wait. I'm daydreaming again. Back to work.
>
> Dan
>
>







>>>> ...
>>>>> "I appreciate your candid questions, but feel they are too leading
>>>>> and accusatory, ...
>>>>
>>>> Well, are they leading and accusatory???
>>>>
>>>> Hard to judge w/o knowing what they are and how they <are> worded...
>>>
>>> They'll be published on July 1st.
>>
>> You may want to consider posting them earlier and getting the
>> feedback from
>> the group. If the questions really are biased then you can consider
>> revising and resubmitting them. If that gets an actual response
>> from MS then everybody is better off.
>>
>> OTOH, if the questions really aren't so much biased as expressing
>> the very real concerns of the VB development community then getting
>> feedback to that
>> effect may push MS to respond also.
>>
>> Worst case is that the questions are generally viewed as needing
>> answers and
>> MS still refuses to respond and that is a story in and of itself.
>>
>> --
>> Reply to the group so all can participate
>> VB.Net: "Fool me once..."

--
Reply to the group so all can participate
VB.Net: "Fool me once..."

 
 
Bob





PostPosted: Thu Jun 23 11:42:12 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB

> Hi Bob,
>
> That's a thought, but I think most real "interviews" need to have the
> interviewer follow gaps in answers with other questions. I almost
> laugh out loud at scripted interviews (usually in the political
> season) in which the interviewee answers a totally different question
> than was asked. A good interviewer will pointedly re-ask the same
> question (maybe in a slightly different way) and point out that the
> previous response didn't address the question.

Or (a la Juan Williams doing an interview on NPR) the interviewee includes
details in the first answer that actually answered the next question but the
interviewer sticks to the script without apparently listening and so forces
the interviewee to just repeat themselves.

> In addition, posing the questions ahead of time does not lead to "an
> interview with xxxx", it provides the response of the marketeer group
> that worked for a week on the question.

Agreed, but since they've already refused to play that way I figure half a
loaf is better than none.

> Sometimes it's important to actually show what folks are thinking
> (assuming they're thinking, that is).

Never a good assumption! <g>

> Frankly, I'd love to see a real interview conducted by someone with
> actual knowledge of the issues, with someone higher up the VB food
> chain. Likewise, with somebody up the Office food chain. Then I'd
> like to see someone compare notes.

Definitely. At least with Office we'll see what happens in future releases
regarding support for VBA. I suspect the Office folks know that forcing
users to rewrite their code would seriously impact the bottom line.

--
Reply to the group so all can participate
VB.Net: "Fool me once..."

 
 
Bob





PostPosted: Thu Jun 23 11:47:56 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB

> In addition, posing the questions ahead of time does not lead to "an
> interview with xxxx", it provides the response of the marketeer group
> that worked for a week on the question.

One other minor point... as I understand it the questions have already gone
to MS so they have already had time to craft responses. The only question
is whether the questions were, in fact, so biased as to make the MS refusal
to respond understandable.

--
Reply to the group so all can participate
VB.Net: "Fool me once..."

 
 
Larry





PostPosted: Thu Jun 23 12:09:52 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB

> > I think it is perfectly acceptable to have you phrase the questions in a
> > better light. Questions can be leading and accusatory, so I would feel
> > they have every right to ask you to rephrase the questions, or go without
> > the interview.
> >
>
> I profoundly disagree, Larry.

This is America. The freedom of speech we enjoy, also encompasses the
freedom to not speak, if that is desired. In other words, we all have a right
to remain silent....

The fact that their silence does not suit your ajenda hardly reflects badly on
them.

> Pre-vetted questions are the stuff of shoddy journalism. I would never
> agree to such a thing. Nor would any journalist who values his or her
> reputation.

I'm no journalist, and I probably wouldn't notice if certain questions were
pre-vetted or not. What I would notice is that your outfit got an interview
with some top managment at MSFT, and questions about topic X were
asked and answered.

So which is better? You get the interview on their terms, or you post a
derogatory flame because they did not play ball in your court?

<g>
LFS

 
 
Huw





PostPosted: Thu Jun 23 12:20:57 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB > So which is better? You get the interview on their terms, or you post a
> derogatory flame because they did not play ball in your court?
>

The best option is to keep hammering on the door until someone eventually
decides to answer. As for getting an interview with top management "on their
own terms". That is not an option I would even consider. I do not regard
myself to be a handy conduit for the PR teams of large companies. What would
be the point of getting some big name spouting meaningless public relations
spiel (again)? No serious questions would be addressed and it would make me
look like a fool for allowing myself to be used as a puppet. No, if we do an
interview, we have real questions and real answers.

As for the freedom to remain silent. That may be the case. But when someone
agrees to talk and then refuses once they've read your questions, one has to
draw one's own conclusions about the motives that lie behind that silence.

best wishes
Huw Collingbourne
================================
Bitwise Magazine
www.bitwisemag.com
www.rantsandraves.co.uk
Dark Neon Ltd.
================================


 
 
Duane





PostPosted: Thu Jun 23 12:55:09 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB
>
> > So which is better? You get the interview on their terms, or you post a
> > derogatory flame because they did not play ball in your court?
> >
>
> The best option is to keep hammering on the door until someone eventually
> decides to answer.

But, in this case, it's pretty clear that isn't going to happen on these
terms so you either go on to something else or at least consider a
revision of the current stance...

> ...No, if we do an
> interview, we have real questions and real answers.

That <can> happen on a mutually agreed turf w/o either party being
compromised...but it takes some flexibility on both sides...

> As for the freedom to remain silent. That may be the case. But when someone
> agrees to talk and then refuses once they've read your questions, one has to
> draw one's own conclusions about the motives that lie behind that silence.

Well, I've given one (I believe) pretty valid interpretation. W/O
actually seeing the "interview" it's not possible to judge how valid
either side's position is...

I think you're reading personal spite into what, as someone else pointed
out, is simply a business position taken by MS. As noted, I suspect the
initial contact was informal and sincere but the "interview" was not
within the range of what the respondent could deal with on his own
volition (and remain a MS employee in good grace, anyway). I'm quite
sure MS has very specific guidelines on the handling of such requests
and once they reach a certain level of sensitivity they are strictly
corporate. Even if the contact you reached were to answer a personal
opinion w/o vetting the responses w/ management, what good would that
do? MS management could/would simply disavow any responsibility.

I think you're tending confuse an individual within a corporation with
the business entity itself. The personal opinion of anyone working for
a company must be supressed in relation to the stated objective and
strategy of their employer. No different than your need as a journalist
to report factually irregardless of your personal opinion.

HTH...
 
 
Tony





PostPosted: Fri Jun 24 03:38:51 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB I agree with your stance, and integrity Huw. I guess if MSFT don't respond,
you could lead your article with the questions, plus the only MSFT response
you've had so far, and let the readers draw their own conclusions. I'm sure
MSFT might consider that blackmail though.

Tony Proctor



> > So which is better? You get the interview on their terms, or you post a
> > derogatory flame because they did not play ball in your court?
> >
>
> The best option is to keep hammering on the door until someone eventually
> decides to answer. As for getting an interview with top management "on
their
> own terms". That is not an option I would even consider. I do not regard
> myself to be a handy conduit for the PR teams of large companies. What
would
> be the point of getting some big name spouting meaningless public
relations
> spiel (again)? No serious questions would be addressed and it would make
me
> look like a fool for allowing myself to be used as a puppet. No, if we do
an
> interview, we have real questions and real answers.
>
> As for the freedom to remain silent. That may be the case. But when
someone
> agrees to talk and then refuses once they've read your questions, one has
to
> draw one's own conclusions about the motives that lie behind that silence.
>
> best wishes
> Huw Collingbourne
> ================================
> Bitwise Magazine
> www.bitwisemag.com
> www.rantsandraves.co.uk
> Dark Neon Ltd.
> ================================
>
>


 
 
Tony





PostPosted: Fri Jun 24 03:52:12 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB It sounds like the old "5th amendment" ploy. Just imagine if defendants
could dictate the questions that a prosecutor could ask...... not that this
a trial of course ;-)

Tony Proctor



> > With 20 years of experience, I'm surprised
> > this raised your ire.
> >
>
> In all honesty, this is the first time that anyone has suggested that they
> should be allowed to dictate the questions that I ask them. I think what
> annoys me most is the assumption that any professional journalist would
> accede to such a request.
>
> > I have to wonder if you aren't trying to get the members of this group
> > riled.
>
> Far from it. The only reason I decided to go for this interview in the
first
> place is because members of this group wrote to tell me how riled they
> already were. Many of the questions I posed to Mr Roxe have been posed
> elsehere but left unanswered. I thought this would be an opportunity for
> Microsoft to address some of the issues that are affecting many VB
> developers. It had not occurrd to me that they would agree and then change
> their minds when they realised that I wasn't just going to be content with
> asking easy-to-answer questions.
>
> > It's not often I see experienced journalists use a six
> > exclamation point declaration.
>
> This is a first for me.
>
> best wishes
> Huw Collingbourne
> ================================
> Bitwise Magazine
> www.bitwisemag.com
> www.rantsandraves.co.uk
> Dark Neon Ltd.
> ================================
>
>


 
 
erewhon





PostPosted: Fri Jun 24 07:29:42 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 09:59:47 +0100, "Huw Collingbourne"


>As some of you know, I've recently been taking an active interest in the
>problems 'traditional' VB developers are having with VB support (or lack
>thereof) by Microsoft. As we shall be leading on this story in July, I
>contacted VB product manager, Jay Roxe, and asked if he would answer some
>questions by way of an 'mail interview' which I would email him.

Actually I reckon you have done rather well by getting this out of
them :-

<snip>
As you know, the VB6 and VB.NET debate is a hot topic now, and
Microsoft does not want to support an interview that will only inflame
the debate without providing customers the information they need.
</snip>

1) It is a 'hot topic'

2) What information do 'customers' need ?

Very interesting.

I have memories of MS slagging BASIC in the 1980's when W Gates Esq
jumped in and declared that it would be the language for Office
Automation.

The college-bred C-bies at MS shut up for quite a long time.

I don't blame the guy for ducking out, he has his share options (and
salary) to consider.

However, I'm rather impressed that you managed to needle them into
saying as much as they have.
 
 
Paul





PostPosted: Fri Jun 24 10:20:57 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB


¤ I agree with your stance, and integrity Huw. I guess if MSFT don't respond,
¤ you could lead your article with the questions, plus the only MSFT response
¤ you've had so far, and let the readers draw their own conclusions. I'm sure
¤ MSFT might consider that blackmail though.
¤

Not to mention irresponsible journalism.


Paul
~~~~
Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)
 
 
Dan





PostPosted: Fri Jun 24 10:21:45 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB Ahhh, OK. I wasn't up on that.

Who knows. It would seem to me that MS would answer them then.

What are they thinking? Oh, wait. I've asked that before haven't I.

Later,
Dan





>> In addition, posing the questions ahead of time does not lead to "an
>> interview with xxxx", it provides the response of the marketeer group
>> that worked for a week on the question.
>
> One other minor point... as I understand it the questions have already
> gone
> to MS so they have already had time to craft responses. The only question
> is whether the questions were, in fact, so biased as to make the MS
> refusal
> to respond understandable.
>
> --
> Reply to the group so all can participate
> VB.Net: "Fool me once..."
>


 
 
Dan





PostPosted: Fri Jun 24 10:23:25 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB



>>
> ...
>> PMJI but if you're going to pick your own questions, what function does
>> an
>> interviewer perform and how would the interview be any different than a
>> press release?
>
> If one gives up complete freedom, granted...I addressed that elsewhere
> more throughly and didn't intend to imply it was an "all or none"
> choice.
>
>> It is certainly their choice as to whether or not to be interviewed. It
>> seems a bit nutty to give them control of the questions though. Refusal
>> of
>> the interview is an answer itself IMHO. To agree to talk, then disappear
>> into the smoke without the courtesy of real communication is just plain
>> rude.
>
> That's true although I suspect what happened was that when the questions
> were of a type/tone/subject that brought on a review by Corporate the
> lid was clamped down and he was barred from responding directly in order
> to maintain control over anything that <was> said.

Including not having the simple courtesy to say "go away" or "you'll have to
talk to PR now"? That's the way I read it, but I could be wrong.



 
 
Duane





PostPosted: Fri Jun 24 10:38:42 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB
>

...
> > ...I suspect what happened was that when the questions
> > were of a type/tone/subject that brought on a review by Corporate the
> > lid was clamped down and he was barred from responding directly in order
> > to maintain control over anything that <was> said.
>
> Including not having the simple courtesy to say "go away" or "you'll have to
> talk to PR now"? That's the way I read it, but I could be wrong.

Having worked in a large organization where an inadvertent unintended
misstatement or unauthorized opinion offered even in a "non-official"
capacity had the potential to do great harm, it doesn't seem at all
unlikely to me that was precisely the case--saw it happen frequntly
where it was done precisely that way. Not to say that was necessarily
"best", but the policy was "<NO> direct contact" other than official
channel on anything even remotely controversial. It often happened an
initial contact would seem benign to the contacted person, they would
start in and all of a sudden realize they were in danger of getting
themselves in a mess of hot water. At that point, if they had any
sense, they would go to Corporate and keep low...

Since we have no idea on the specific questions or how they were
couched, whether MS is overreacting is hard to tell...I'm simply saying
how they've responded mirrors quite closely how an organization I was
formerly with would appear from the outside in a similar circumstance
and how it is nothing at all personal.
 
 
Huw





PostPosted: Fri Jun 24 13:28:19 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB
> ¤ I agree with your stance, and integrity Huw. I guess if MSFT don't
> respond,
> ¤ you could lead your article with the questions, plus the only MSFT
> response
> ¤ you've had so far, and let the readers draw their own conclusions. I'm
> sure
> ¤ MSFT might consider that blackmail though.
> ¤
>
> Not to mention irresponsible journalism.
>
>
> Paul
> ~~~~
> Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)

Irresponsible? Not at all. Perfectly good journalism, actually.

As far as I am concerned, the only type of journalism that's "irresponsible"
is journalism which is dishonest. My own brand of journalism is to ask the
most significant questions I can think of, which may or may not be questions
with which the interviewee is comfortable. Then I will print the answers I
am given, which may or may not be answers with which I am comfortable. If
you ask tough questions, you may reasonably expect tough answers. I have no
problem with that. The easy route is to ask bland questions, in which case
you will get bland answers. If that's "responsible journalism" I'm having
none of it.

I mean, if an interviewee wants to pull apart my questions and expose my
prejudices or my ignorance they are free to do so. That's perfectly fair
game in this business. As long as I get to ask the questions I want to ask,
I will give them complete freedom to respond with answers of their choosing.
I will print whatever they tell me. If they tell me nothing, then I have no
option but to state the questions I asked so that people are able to judge
whether or not my questions were fair and whether or not silence is an
adequate response.

The good news is that, having explained my position to Microsoft (namely:
(a) that I believe my questions to be both fair and important, (b) that I
will not accede to any requests to "tone them down" and (c) that I guarantee
to print the answers verbatim, whatever those answers may be) I am pleased
to report that Jay Roxe has reconsidered his original decision and has now
agreed to answer my questions.

best wishes
Huw Collingbourne
================================
Bitwise Magazine
www.bitwisemag.com
www.rantsandraves.co.uk
Dark Neon Ltd.
================================


 
 
Saga





PostPosted: Fri Jun 24 13:39:52 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB
Fantastic!




>
>> ¤ I agree with your stance, and integrity Huw. I guess if MSFT don't
>> respond,
>> ¤ you could lead your article with the questions, plus the only MSFT
>> response
>> ¤ you've had so far, and let the readers draw their own conclusions.
>> I'm sure
>> ¤ MSFT might consider that blackmail though.
>> ¤
>>
>> Not to mention irresponsible journalism.
>>
>>
>> Paul
>> ~~~~
>> Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)
>
> Irresponsible? Not at all. Perfectly good journalism, actually.
>
> As far as I am concerned, the only type of journalism that's
> "irresponsible" is journalism which is dishonest. My own brand of
> journalism is to ask the most significant questions I can think of,
> which may or may not be questions with which the interviewee is
> comfortable. Then I will print the answers I am given, which may or
> may not be answers with which I am comfortable. If you ask tough
> questions, you may reasonably expect tough answers. I have no problem
> with that. The easy route is to ask bland questions, in which case you
> will get bland answers. If that's "responsible journalism" I'm having
> none of it.
>
> I mean, if an interviewee wants to pull apart my questions and expose
> my prejudices or my ignorance they are free to do so. That's perfectly
> fair game in this business. As long as I get to ask the questions I
> want to ask, I will give them complete freedom to respond with answers
> of their choosing. I will print whatever they tell me. If they tell me
> nothing, then I have no option but to state the questions I asked so
> that people are able to judge whether or not my questions were fair
> and whether or not silence is an adequate response.
>
> The good news is that, having explained my position to Microsoft
> (namely: (a) that I believe my questions to be both fair and
> important, (b) that I will not accede to any requests to "tone them
> down" and (c) that I guarantee to print the answers verbatim, whatever
> those answers may be) I am pleased to report that Jay Roxe has
> reconsidered his original decision and has now agreed to answer my
> questions.
>
> best wishes
> Huw Collingbourne
> ================================
> Bitwise Magazine
> www.bitwisemag.com
> www.rantsandraves.co.uk
> Dark Neon Ltd.
> ================================
>


 
 
Duane





PostPosted: Fri Jun 24 13:39:34 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB
>
...
> The good news is that, having explained my position to Microsoft (namely:
> (a) that I believe my questions to be both fair and important, (b) that I
> will not accede to any requests to "tone them down" and (c) that I guarantee
> to print the answers verbatim, whatever those answers may be) I am pleased
> to report that Jay Roxe has reconsidered his original decision and has now
> agreed to answer my questions.
>

Well, kewl! I'll admit I'm surprised they've changed tactics
(apparently) so completely, but, hey! I was just going through "the
drill" from past life... :)
 
 
Paul





PostPosted: Mon Jun 27 14:09:21 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB

¤
¤ > ¤ I agree with your stance, and integrity Huw. I guess if MSFT don't
¤ > respond,
¤ > ¤ you could lead your article with the questions, plus the only MSFT
¤ > response
¤ > ¤ you've had so far, and let the readers draw their own conclusions. I'm
¤ > sure
¤ > ¤ MSFT might consider that blackmail though.
¤ > ¤
¤ >
¤ > Not to mention irresponsible journalism.
¤ >
¤ >
¤ > Paul
¤ > ~~~~
¤ > Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)
¤
¤ Irresponsible? Not at all. Perfectly good journalism, actually.
¤

Not in my opinion. It isn't appropriate to take your questions and paste in answers that were not
directly ****ed from those questions but are being attributed to Microsoft. I'm assuming that
isn't something you would intend to do.

¤ As far as I am concerned, the only type of journalism that's "irresponsible"
¤ is journalism which is dishonest. My own brand of journalism is to ask the
¤ most significant questions I can think of, which may or may not be questions
¤ with which the interviewee is comfortable. Then I will print the answers I
¤ am given, which may or may not be answers with which I am comfortable. If
¤ you ask tough questions, you may reasonably expect tough answers. I have no
¤ problem with that. The easy route is to ask bland questions, in which case
¤ you will get bland answers. If that's "responsible journalism" I'm having
¤ none of it.
¤

I think we're talking about something different. You can ask whatever you wish and if Microsoft
doesn't respond then "no comment" is appropriate. I think that we would agree on this.


Paul
~~~~
Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)
 
 
Huw





PostPosted: Mon Jun 27 14:41:23 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB > Not in my opinion. It isn't appropriate to take your questions and paste
> in answers that were not
> directly ****ed from those questions but are being attributed to
> Microsoft. I'm assuming that
> isn't something you would intend to do.
>

Of course not. Where on earth did you get such an idea....? I've made it
plain from the outset that our questions will be printed verbatim. The
answers from Microsoft will be printed verbatim. I don't understand what you
are suggesting by your reference to "pasted in" answers.

>
> I think we're talking about something different. You can ask whatever you
> wish and if Microsoft
> doesn't respond then "no comment" is appropriate. I think that we would
> agree on this.
>

I have said repeatedly that if any questions are unanswered, the questions
will be published and the fact that Microsoft wished not to answer them will
be indicated. In fact, I don't believe this will be necessary since MS has
now undertaken to provide answers to our questions.

I must say, however, that I strongly resent the implication that I would
'paste in' answers that were not provided by Microsoft. That is a most
damaging accusation and I have no idea where you have heard any such
suggestion. To misattribute quotations in such a manner would
unprofessional, unethical and, quite possibly, illegal. I am not aware that
anybody has ever suggested that I would contemplate doing such a thing. I
assure you that I am not in the business of 'gutter journalism'. I believe
in being honest and forthright in my questions and I appreciate it when
anyobody I interview is similarly honest and forthright in their answers.

best wishes
Huw Collingbourne
================================
Bitwise Magazine
www.bitwisemag.com
www.rantsandraves.co.uk
Dark Neon Ltd.
================================



 
 
Karl





PostPosted: Mon Jun 27 20:39:49 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB
>> Not in my opinion. It isn't appropriate to take your questions and
>> paste in answers that were not
>> directly ****ed from those questions but are being attributed to
>> Microsoft. I'm assuming that
>> isn't something you would intend to do.
>
> Of course not. Where on earth did you get such an idea....? I've made
> it plain from the outset that our questions will be printed verbatim.
> The answers from Microsoft will be printed verbatim. I don't
> understand what you are suggesting by your reference to "pasted in"
> answers.

Paul's our resident troll. When reality doesn't mesh with his world-view, he simply
"pastes in" what he prefers to rebutt.
--
Working Without a .NET?
http://www.hide-link.com/


 
 
Paul





PostPosted: Tue Jun 28 13:02:21 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB

¤ > Not in my opinion. It isn't appropriate to take your questions and paste
¤ > in answers that were not
¤ > directly ****ed from those questions but are being attributed to
¤ > Microsoft. I'm assuming that
¤ > isn't something you would intend to do.
¤ >
¤
¤ Of course not. Where on earth did you get such an idea....? I've made it
¤ plain from the outset that our questions will be printed verbatim. The
¤ answers from Microsoft will be printed verbatim. I don't understand what you
¤ are suggesting by your reference to "pasted in" answers.
¤

Gathered from Tony Proctor's suggestion (to which I originally responded). Quite obviously if you
don't have Microsoft's response to your questions, there is nothing to refer to and nothing from
which readers can draw their own conclusions.

¤ I must say, however, that I strongly resent the implication that I would
¤ 'paste in' answers that were not provided by Microsoft. That is a most
¤ damaging accusation and I have no idea where you have heard any such
¤ suggestion.

No accusation was made by me. Neither was the suggestion.

¤ To misattribute quotations in such a manner would
¤ unprofessional, unethical and, quite possibly, illegal. I am not aware that
¤ anybody has ever suggested that I would contemplate doing such a thing. I
¤ assure you that I am not in the business of 'gutter journalism'. I believe
¤ in being honest and forthright in my questions and I appreciate it when
¤ anyobody I interview is similarly honest and forthright in their answers.

Well "interview" of course is the key element.


Paul
~~~~
Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)
 
 
Paul





PostPosted: Tue Jun 28 13:15:50 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB


¤ >> Not in my opinion. It isn't appropriate to take your questions and
¤ >> paste in answers that were not
¤ >> directly ****ed from those questions but are being attributed to
¤ >> Microsoft. I'm assuming that
¤ >> isn't something you would intend to do.
¤ >
¤ > Of course not. Where on earth did you get such an idea....? I've made
¤ > it plain from the outset that our questions will be printed verbatim.
¤ > The answers from Microsoft will be printed verbatim. I don't
¤ > understand what you are suggesting by your reference to "pasted in"
¤ > answers.
¤
¤ Paul's our resident troll. When reality doesn't mesh with his world-view, he simply
¤ "pastes in" what he prefers to rebutt.

Obi-Wan, you've taught me well.


Paul
~~~~
Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)
 
 
Heath





PostPosted: Fri Jul 01 23:17:02 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB Huw, I can understand your frustration. However, try and do an interview
with Tom Cruize or Jerry Sienfeld with out getting them a list of your
questions and allowing them to chop, or flat out refuse to answer some of
your questions.

Have you posted the questioned you wanted to ask here yet? Let us read them
and see what we think.



> > I think it is perfectly acceptable to have you phrase the questions in a
> > better light. Questions can be leading and accusatory, so I would feel
> > they have every right to ask you to rephrase the questions, or go without
> > the interview.
> >
>
> I profoundly disagree, Larry. Pre-vetted questions are the stuff of shoddy
> journalism. I would never agree to such a thing. Nor would any journalist
> who values his or her reputation.
>
> > For the case in point examples:
> >
> > Have you stopped beating your wife yet? Did you forget to buy the
> > batteries for her ****?
> >
>
> If my questions were that crass, it would be a very simple matter for a
> Microsoft spokesperson to frame a response in which the flaws and biases of
> my argument were refuted. I'm sorry but I agree to give Jay Roxe absolute
> freedom to answer my questions any way he wants. I do not give him the
> freedom to tell me which questions he'd like to answer.
>
> >
> > I would suggest one option you have is to define the topic you want to
> > addressed (migration of code and developers) and include a few bullet
> > points if you have specific issues you want addressed, and then ask them
> > for a Q/A formated reply that you can publish.
> >
>
> Sorry, but that's a copout. I want real answers to real questions not just a
> regurgitation of some PR document. I've sent him a list of perfectly good
> questions. Those are the ones I'd like answered. He agreed to my interview
> in the first place. I would like him to honour that agreement.
>
> > You get the interview, with the topic you want covered, and they get to
> > word the questions in a manner they are comfortable with. The way I
> > see it, (just like anybody reading your post here) they don't have to
> > provide a reply if they don't want to....
>
> Tht's fine. I will publish my questions and everyone can then come to their
> own conclusions as to whether or not Microsoft should answer them. If my
> questions are unfair or misleading, I have no problems at all with Jay Roxe
> or some other senior commentator from Microsoft addressing their concerns.
> However, I still find myself incredulous that they are seriously suggesting
> that I should write easier, nicer questions. I mean, I suppose the ultimate
> solution would be to ask Mr Roxe to let me know the list of questions which
> he would like to answer!
>
> No, that simply isn't going to happen.
>
> best wishes
> Huw Collingbourne
> ================================
> Bitwise Magazine
> www.bitwisemag.com
> www.rantsandraves.co.uk
> Dark Neon Ltd.
> ================================
>
>
>
 
 
Huw





PostPosted: Sat Jul 02 03:47:32 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB


>
> Have you posted the questioned you wanted to ask here yet? Let us read
> them
> and see what we think.
>

The interview is now online.

http://www.bitwisemag.com/copy/features/vb6/vb_jayroxe-qa.html

The questions are exactly as I originally wrote them. I apprecite the
concerns of some members of this group. However, there was never any
possibility that I would agree to demands to alter my questions. I am
pleased to say that Mr Roxe eventually agreed to answer these questions and
I believe his answers are all the more interesting for that!

best wishes
Huw Collingbourne
================================
Bitwise Magazine
www.bitwisemag.com
www.rantsandraves.co.uk
Dark Neon Ltd.
================================


 
 
Bob





PostPosted: Sat Jul 02 08:13:20 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB



>>
>> Have you posted the questioned you wanted to ask here yet? Let us
>> read them
>> and see what we think.
>>
>
> The interview is now online.
>
> http://www.bitwisemag.com/copy/features/vb6/vb_jayroxe-qa.html
>
> The questions are exactly as I originally wrote them.

I'm surprised they balked in the first place. Those look to me to be pretty
soft-ball questions that did not even begin to get at the heart of the issue
of core language stability that is the central problem with the VB.Net
language.

--
Reply to the group so all can participate
VB.Net: "Fool me once..."

 
 
Tony





PostPosted: Sun Jul 03 07:03:12 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB I agree with Bob. I think you could have bowled them some *real difficult*
questions that would really have made them balk.

In fact, they seem to have side-stepped one of the most important issues, in
my opinion: How do companies with huge legacy code bases make the transition
without going "belly up"? This is not a trivial question. We're currently
looking in earnest, and are starting to panic at the sheer scale of the
problem. Not only does it require a re-design, and the continued support of
the existing code base until existing customers are ready to upgrade, but
there are still customers who are resisting the installation of the .Net
run-time.

In your last question, Huw, you say: "Obviously for companies which may have
developed many hundreds of thousands of lines of VB code this necessarily
involves a huge amount of effort and considerable expense".

Although this really should have been part of a question in its own right,
the only hint that Jay acknowledged it was his closing remark of: "I am
firmly committed to helping developers to be successful in transitioning
their skills and code from Visual Basic 6.0 to Visual Basic .NET", and even
that rates 'transitioning their code' as secondary to 'transitioning their
skills".

We're talking business here -- dollars! -- and the complete success or
failure of a company, not simply having familiar buttons/windows/syntax - so
why can't they get their heads around it?

Tony Proctor



>


> >
> > Have you posted the questioned you wanted to ask here yet? Let us read
> > them
> > and see what we think.
> >
>
> The interview is now online.
>
> http://www.bitwisemag.com/copy/features/vb6/vb_jayroxe-qa.html
>
> The questions are exactly as I originally wrote them. I apprecite the
> concerns of some members of this group. However, there was never any
> possibility that I would agree to demands to alter my questions. I am
> pleased to say that Mr Roxe eventually agreed to answer these questions
and
> I believe his answers are all the more interesting for that!
>
> best wishes
> Huw Collingbourne
> ================================
> Bitwise Magazine
> www.bitwisemag.com
> www.rantsandraves.co.uk
> Dark Neon Ltd.
> ================================
>
>


 
 
Huw





PostPosted: Sun Jul 03 08:05:10 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB > In fact, they seem to have side-stepped one of the most important issues,
> in
> my opinion: How do companies with huge legacy code bases make the
> transition
> without going "belly up"? This is not a trivial question.

Yikes! Given the problems we had getting *this* interview.... ;-)

I am aware that Jay gave more complete answers to some questions than to
others and, if the opportunity had been available, I would have liked to
have asked supplementary questions. Alas, it was touch-and-go as to whether
we'd get the first batch answered (they eventually got back to use the day
before publication) and there was no really possibility of sending more.

In fact, you'll find that some of these issues are discussed elsewhere in
Bitwise (see Dermot's piece for example). Moreover, this is just one MS
interview. I've never said that it will be our *only* interview.

Seriously, if you have any comments that you'd like MS to address, you may
want to write a letter for publication in Bitwise. The more letters we have,
the more "questions that need answering" we can compile. I'm quite happy to
go back to Microsoft and try to get them answered.

I did ask people from this newsgroup to contribute comments and questions
some weeks ago, in fact, but while a number of people wrote to me privately,
nobody offered any comments for publication, so I was limited in the "real
world" questions at my disposal.

best wishes
Huw Collingbourne
================================
Bitwise Magazine
www.bitwisemag.com
www.rantsandraves.co.uk
Dark Neon Ltd.
================================


 
 
Stefan





PostPosted: Sun Jul 03 14:30:39 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB On Sun, 3 Jul 2005 14:05:10 +0100, "Huw Collingbourne"



>> In fact, they seem to have side-stepped one of the most important issues,
>> in
>> my opinion: How do companies with huge legacy code bases make the
>> transition
>> without going "belly up"? This is not a trivial question.
>
>Yikes! Given the problems we had getting *this* interview.... ;-)

Thanks Huw for the piece. It answers a lot of my questions, but I take
exception to your labeling it as an interview. The answers (written I'm
sure) are too well constructed. I don't think even the best
extemporaneous speaker could conversationally compose such ~eloquent~
replies.

MS can continue to go on in their ~own~ direction and I will at least in
the near term be forced to use their platforms simply because there
really isn't an alternative. But the market speak/babble has finally
taken its toll. I'm numb and looking for something new from anyone -
anyone but MS, thank you.

Their actions and behavior and attitudes regarding the wealth of VB
legacy code in this world will, I hope and pray, eventually come back to
bite them. Someone somewhere will mount a campaign to displace MS and I
think they (MS) should be encouraged to continue their self destructive
behavior so that we as a developer community can move on to the next
thing. I'm waiting and it WILL come.


---
Stefan Berglund
 
 
Huw





PostPosted: Sun Jul 03 17:22:29 CDT 2005 Top

Visual Basic >> Microsoft Refuses To Answer Bitwise Magazine Questions on VB > Thanks Huw for the piece. It answers a lot of my questions, but I take
> exception to your labeling it as an interview.

Sorry, I've now done so many 'e-mail interviews' that I may be guilty of
using the term as shorthand. In fact, you might be surprised to find that
many interviews in the press these days are done by email. Ideally this sort
of piece is constructed over an exchange of correspondence (for example, my
interview with marc hoffman last month was also done by email but was
constructed over a few to-ings and fro-ings so that I was able to pick up on
points that marc had made and ask for clarification etc.) I had hoped to be
able to do the same with Jay but, in the event, this was not possible.

I would ideally, of course, like to video an interview with someone from MS
as I did with David Intersimone from Borland. I'll do my best to get this at
some time - if Mr Balmer or Mr Gates are reading this, please get in touch
;-)

I wish I could get all the interviews I want with all the people I want to
interview. Bear in mind, however, that Bitwise has only been online for one
month so most of those people won't even have heard of us yet. I'm hoping
that Bitwise may eventually become sufficiently well known that it might
become less of an up-hill task when attempting to get interviews. I'm going
to do my very best to get those interviews so, in the meantime, stick with
us. Your support and encouragement would be very much valued.... ;-)

best wishes
Huw Collingbourne
================================
Bitwise Magazine
www.bitwisemag.com
www.rantsandraves.co.uk
Dark Neon Ltd.
================================