Board index » Visual Studio » Stand Alone EXE

Visual Studio109
I was wondering if it is at all posible to write a stand alone .EXE program

in Visual Studio .NET. Hopefully in VB.NET but if not another language would

be ok. Thanks for the assistance


-

"David Pendrey" <fairydave@dodo.com.au>wrote in message

Yes. Visual Studio programs (VB, C#, etc.) normally compile to a single

.EXE file. This file will only run on computers that have .NET Framework

installed, but it's a single .EXE file.





-

"Michael A. Covington" <look@ai.uga.edu.for.address>wrote in message

Or, you can use Thinstall to wrap the exe and only the portions of the .Net

framework that it uses into a single executable that can be run on any

computer - with or without the .Net framework installed.



Jim Hubbard





-

Thank you very much Jim! Would you be able to give me some direction on how

to use this application to wrap my applications into working? Preferably I

would like to just release a single .EXE program simply because its such a

small program it doesn't warrant a whole 20 meg package to get it working.

Thank you so much fo ryour assistance





"Jim Hubbard" <reply@groups.please>wrote in message



-

Hi Jim,

Have you used Thinstall? If so, how much did it cost? And what is your

opinion of it?



TIA,

John



On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 00:11:54 -0500, "Jim Hubbard"

<reply@groups.please>wrote:



-

"David Pendrey" <fairydave@dodo.com.au>wrote in message

After you create your application, you run Thinstall and point it to your

exe. Thinstall then finds all related files and portions of the .Net

framework that your EXE needs and wraps the whole thing into a single EXE

that can be run without installation. This helps in a couple of ways....



First, you never have your application's files overwritten (i.e. DLL Hell).

Second, your users don't need administrative rights to run the application.

Third, your users don't need the .Net framework installed.



Thinstall even creates a virtual registry on-the-fly that your application

uses so that there are no changes to the users registry.



Of course Thinstall can be programmed to make permanent registry entries and

even to leave files on the users system (such as database files or image

files that your app may create). Thinstall also handles licensing for you.

It's really all up to you.



Thinstall is used by a huge host of companies (like Quickbooks), government

agencies and every branch of the armed forces.



I haven't talked to Jonathon Clark (President of Thinstall) in a few weeks.

The last time we talked, he had mentioned that they were working on a new

pricing scheme to be more flexible for small companies and large. So, I am

not sure what the pricing structure is right now.



Whatever it is, you can get an extra 5% off by mentioning jim__hubbard @

hotmail . com . Tell Jonathon I sent you. He's a great guy and his staff

are very helpful. www.thinstall.com



Hope this helps......





-

"J L" <john@marymonte.com>wrote in message

The pricing structure has changed. You'd have to contact Thinstall

(www.thinstall.com) for current pricing. But, you can get an extra 5% off

if you mention code jim__hubbard @ hotmail . com (remove the sp@ces).



I definitely use it. It's great! No worries about distributing the .Net

framework.



Actually.....distributing the .Net framework is more of a bandwidth thing

than a real problem. The problem comes in when the user tries to install

the .Net framework. Unless you are on a completely clean PC, installing the

.Net framework can be problematic. Then your customers are calling you for

support with a Microsoft product and that just sucks.



With the Thinstall EXE, all they have to do is double click it and they are

off and running (unless you configure Thinstall to handle licensing - in

which case they need to enter the appropriate keys to register the

software).



It is the coolest, (somewhat unknown) application out there for developers.



I wouldn't distribute .Net apps without it.



One more thing.......Net applications in a Thinstall EXE are safe against

ildasm (disassembling) and don't need obfuscators to keep your code

fromprying eyes. This is what originally sold me on Thinstall.



I wrote some about it a while back on my blog at

poderthis.blogspot.com/.">poderthis.blogspot.com/.



Hope this helps!



Jim Hubbard





-

Jim,



newsgroup I am active in..



Can you give some samples for situations where you have got those.



Cor





-

David,



What you ask now is endless asked times before in these newsgroups.



Be aware that the Net framework is in fact nothing more than a

servicepack/extension over the OS, what could be made by any vendor of

operating systems to let the programs made with the ILS language run and

provide with that extra's as by instance better memorymanagement.



A lot of us have had in past more than once problems with different runtimes

for more versions of a language.



That is gone with NET



When you want a real small program, than there is in Visual Studio Net the

C++ unmanaged code part for things as drivers etc.



I hope this helps,



Cor





-

Cor,



It is a shame that they did not think it was an important part of

programming. For large, complicated programs then a package distribution

such as that is the way to go, but for small programs (i.e. notepad) there

should be the option to compile a stand alone .EXE file. However I have

recently learnt of a 3rd party application ('Thinstall') which will perform

this task for you. Thanks for your help





"Cor Ligthert" <notmyfirstname@planet.nl>wrote in message



-

David,



I think that you did not read my message. When that is not enough, read the

concept of the Net. It is not something of one minute thinking. There is as

well done things as I wrote to overcome all things from runtimes with

different versions.



When you add something as ThinInstall, than that is not a single running

Exe. Which in fact don't exist since the time of windows for screen

operations. It only still exist for things as commandline and driver

operations on Win32 systems.



A program that uses a window (form) can never be a small exe when there is

not something used as now a OS extension as Net or a runtime.



The ones who insert in those programs direct handling of the window, do

remind me on those people who in the beginning of MS-Dos were using direct

screen handling by the OS (pseudo mem) addresses for that. That has given

the most problems when Windows started to keep those programs running and

where the first programs from which was told that they would not go anymore.



The reason for the developers of that was that than they could keep the

programs small and that those were faster. They found themselves very clever

guys. But professionals (than and now most) called those guys fools.



It is a shame that some developers do only one minute thinking.



Cor





-

If it is not possible to have a small EXE program which includes a form then

how is notepad only 68kb? It includes several forms and depends only on the

windows system behind it. There is a difference between 'minute thingking'

and weighing the possabilities.



For small, simple programs it is often worth while to add a little bit extra

size onto the file and have it take a little bit longer to load to keep it a

stand alone. After all, its still a small program, and still loads in what

is a very usable time frame.



You can't just optimise all the time at the expense of usability and

distribution. If people had to download the 22 meg .NET framework to

download a program to read RTF files they would not get it. But if the

program takes a few extra seconds to load ands takes up an extra meg on

their hard drive it is much more user friendly.



From what I can understand the THInstall program simply moves the API

functions calls from the .NET framework into your EXE program. The program

maintains its functionality on Windows 98 and above irrespective of if the

.NET framework is installed and if so which version.





"Cor Ligthert" <notmyfirstname@planet.nl>wrote in message



-

Cor..



You used...?



mov ah,09

int 21h



or...



mov ah,..

int 10h



or

mov es,video_segment

mov di,

...



The speed differences where abismal!



Of course it caused problems for windows (At least with 8086 and 80286), but

the OS should have provided a decent video output routine! Anyway, text

based output was so fast that a complete screen redraw would only take

4kbytes, so even for windows that wasnt a big deal.



Regards,

Alejandro Lapeyre





"Cor Ligthert" <notmyfirstname@planet.nl>escribió en el mensaje



-

"Michael A. Covington" <look@ai.uga.edu.for.address>schrieb:

Note that all components used by the application must be available on the

target machine too.



--

M S Herfried K. Wagner

M V P <URL:dotnet.mvps.org/>">dotnet.mvps.org/>

V B <URL:classicvb.org/petition/>">classicvb.org/petition/>



-

"David Pendrey" <fairydave@dodo.com.au>wrote in message

And, presently they may have to download the .Net Framework up to 3 times

(1.0, 1.1 and 2.0) to run all .Net applications because none of the

frameworks are backwards compatible with it's siblings! We have simply

swapped DLL Hell for .Net Framework Hell.



Since you cannot know what version of .Net your user may have (if any) you

must ship the .Net runtime with all of your applications (or use Thinstall

to wrap them).



It simply amazes me that Microsoft did not make .Net exes automatically

download only the portions of the .Net runtime they need (from Microsoft) to

run. A program written in .Net and stored on an internet server will do

this. It only downloads the DLLs it requires for the functionality that the

user is attempting to use. So why not have it do the same for the whole

damned framework?



A second thing that just boggles my mind is why the .Net framework is not a

"Critical" update for XP+. If Microsoft is moving to this platform, then it

is needed on every Windows desktop. Why don't they make it a critical

update and force it onto the desktops?



Then we could ship very tiny applications because we would not need to ship

the runtimes. And, that whole XCOPY thing they were so high on might

actually work. As it stands you cannot rely on Xcopy to distribute an

application because you cannot rely on the correct (if any) .Net framework

to be on the end user's PC.



Thinstall apps are still a lot larger than a simple exe output from .Net. I

did an experiment with Washington University's .Net rewrite of the classic

Paint program. If you downloaded the .Net framework and the code needed to

run Paint 2.0 it added up to over 27 MB. The same application compiled with

Thinstall was just over 14 MB and needed no installation, needed no

administrator privikeges, and will never have its files overwritten or

corrupted because they are all inside the Thinstall EXE.



Why didn't Microsoft think of this? They have seen and used Thinstall, and

even spoke well of it.







-

"Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]" <hirf-spam-me-here@gmx.at>wrote in message

Thinstall takes care of this too.



With Thinstall this is not an issue.



Jim Hubbard





-

Notepad requires a runtime of sorts, and probably a load of libraries. Hook

a debugger up to it and see how many libraries load. The overhead is hidden

because they're generally already present, as will be the case with the .NET

framework at some point in the future. Things like Thinstall do definitely

have advantages, but if a bug crops up in a .NET component, how do you patch

it? You need to tell your users (it becomes a problem in YOUR code, rather

than the framework) rather than letting them just get updates via Windows

Update etc.



Steve



"David Pendrey" <fairydave@dodo.com.au>wrote in message



-

Notepad uses windows components, which if they don't exist almost no

programs will work, so they can be taken as written as a part of windows. So

if notepad only uses windows components, it doesnt count as a required

library as its a part of the OS.





"Steve McLellan" <sjm AT fixerlabs DOT com>wrote in message



-

David,



Exactly as I wrote already is the Microsoft Net framework an extension to

the Windows OS, in the same way as that can be with another vendors OS. It

is as I wrote a kind of servicepack not a stand alone solution (reread my

first answer for that).



You have given with this message a good sample why using the Net is better

than all kind of separated runtimes or other of this kind of solutions.



Cor





-

"Jim Hubbard" <reply@groups.please>wrote in message



Only the third of these is different from normal life with .NET Framework,

as far as I can tell...



But it sounds useful.





-

I went to the Thinstall site and they sure make it complicated just to

get a trial or even pricing! Normally when a company wants to sell

something, they make it as simple as possible.



For example, they as for company information with web address. What if

I am an independent user and dont have a company web address?



Why do they want my phone number? I don't want a sales person to call

me. But you cant download the trial or even get the price without

providing all this information.



It looks like a cool product but I don't like jumping through hoops to

get it.



Chris



-

Scratch that! I can't even get a trial because my email address (at

sbcglobal.net) is rejected! Even though this is a national ISP!



-

Hi Jim,

I was very excited about Thinstall until I got this pricing from

Jonathan:





1 Application License per unit with Basic support $4,000.00



That is outrageous. For those who dont believe it, here is the link he

sent me to get that pricing



https://thinstall.com/store/index.php



He definetly needs to rethink his pricing structure! I do agree with

all you are saying. Thinstall's philosophy is the right way to go for

XCOPY to really work and they could make a killing if they set thier

price points correctly. I am a single developer creating custom

applications for some fairly large food processors. No way can I

afford that price. A few hundred dollars and it is tempting. I believe

Jonathan should rethink the possible/probable price/volume curve if he

did price this aggressively...let's see, how many millions of .Net

programmers?...



John





-

J L wrote:

Holy crap! That is some price increase! I bought it about 18 months ago

for $795 if I remember right. Just renewed it for another year of

upgrades for $300ish in December, too.



He needs to license per developer, that way the little guy can use it

and he can still hit up the big guys for a lot of money.



--

- Mitchell Vincent

- kBilling - Invoices Made Easy!

- www.k-billing.com">www.k-billing.com

-

Either that or some of us smart guys can develop our own single package

installer and undercut the competition.



Brett



"J L" <john@marymonte.com>wrote in message



-

Yeah - the site is very convoluted. This product isn't for single

developers either. Read previous thread on pricing.



Brett



"Chris Dunaway" <dunawayc@gmail.com>wrote in message



-

Brett wrote:

The lack of competition is probably exactly what has driving the cost of

Thinstall up..



Your idea sure isn't a bad one! I could see something just to bundle the

.NET libraries around an executable as a MAJOR seller to .NET

developers. Obviously no trivial task, but certainly possible.





--

- Mitchell Vincent

- kBilling - Invoices Made Easy!

- www.k-billing.com">www.k-billing.com

-

"Steve McLellan" <sjm AT fixerlabs DOT com>wrote in message

If you product doesn't work, they are going to blame you anyway.



That's how customers are (and should be, if you think about it logically).

Most aren't programmers, or even all that technically literate. If they

click on your program's icon, they expect it to work. If it doesn't, your

product sucks (in their eyes).



They don't care why it doesn't work. And they have been given the

run-around so much (the PC maker blames Windows, Microsoft blames a driver

manufacturer, the diver manufacturer can't be found......the PC user is

still screwed and now just more angry) that they don't want to hear that

it's someone else's fault. They just want it to work.



Cool thing about a Thinstall app is that you can also program it to update

itself. So, if you put a new version on an available server.....you're set.



I've read the pricing concerns above, and I'll talk to Jonathan about it

today.



Jim Hubbard





-

J L wrote:

I have to agree. The main selling point of the product was to

eliminate the need for downloading and installing the .Net framework.

There are other benefis to be sure, but that is the main one. Once

your app get appreciable in size, that becomes less of an issue.



To me, the main users of that product would be small, shareware

developers who want their programs to download quick. But the pricing

is for a large development house.



Perhapse they could come up with different levels of the product such

as Personal, Professional, and Enterprise levels with more features

available in the advanced products. They could, for example, limits

the Personal edition to only Windows forms and libraries. If you want

to use more complex features of the .Net runtime, you would need more

advanced versions of Thinstall.



My 2c



Chris



-

Hi Brett,

My thoughts exactly. Being the Laisez Faire Capitalists that I am...I

am betting on competition to put this market right eventually. I am

not capable of it, but with all the talent on this NG there must be

some who could do this...maybe not with all the bells and whistles but

doing the most important features (even there, I dont know what I am

talking about LOL)



John



On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:33:09 -0500, "Brett" <no@spam.com>wrote:



-

I'm surprised an open source product hasn't surfaced... Maybe a good

time to start one?



J L wrote:



--

---

Aaron Smith

Remove -1- to E-Mail me. Spam Sucks.

-

Any one have statistics on the number of users that have .NET installed?



Brett



"David Pendrey" <fairydave@dodo.com.au>wrote in message



-

"Jim Hubbard" <reply@groups.please>schrieb:

I still doubt that there are no legal issues with distributing only parts of

the .NET Framework...



--

M S Herfried K. Wagner

M V P <URL:dotnet.mvps.org/>">dotnet.mvps.org/>

V B <URL:classicvb.org/petition/>">classicvb.org/petition/>



-

Well perhaps we are either enticing a guru to consider a great

opportunity or getting Thinstall's attention to review pricing. Isn't

this the market place and isnt the market speaking to them. Of course

they are free to do as they please but it has definetly priced me out

of the market.



John



On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 18:21:32 GMT, Aaron Smith

<thespirit-1-@smithcentral.net>wrote:



-

I think there is more to it than just minimizing the file size and

downloading ther required dependencies. It has been a while since I

studied their site but I do remember that they are creating a virtual

space to run the app. But in any case, there is a need to be filled

here byeond the way MS is handling deployment.



John



On 18 Mar 2005 10:07:12 -0800, "Chris Dunaway" <dunawayc@gmail.com>

wrote:



-

Jim Hubbard <reply@groups.please>wrote:



<snip>



The problem is, as soon as you've got a few programs using Thinstall,

you end up having downloaded more than you would have done if you'd got

the real framework and individual small programs...



--

Jon Skeet - <skeet@pobox.com>

www.pobox.com/~skeet">www.pobox.com/~skeet

If replying to the group, please do not mail me too

-

"Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]" <hirf-spam-me-here@gmx.at>wrote in message

use it are on dial-up, what are your options? 20+ megs is out of the

question in this case.



Brett





-

Brett,



What country are you from. In my country there is almost no dialup anymore.



Certainly not by people who are downloading shareware.



Cor





-

Cor Ligthert wrote:

A little country called the USA, and there are a LOT of dialup users

here. Judging from the transfer rates from my webserver, a whole lot of

my customers are using dialup (more than %50 if the stats aren't telling

lies)..



--

- Mitchell Vincent

- kBilling - Invoices Made Easy!

- www.k-billing.com">www.k-billing.com

-

"Jon Skeet [C# MVP]" <skeet@pobox.com>wrote in message

You give people the option to download the Framework or stand alone EXE.

Explain the benefit of download the Framework as it applies to future .NET

apps they may use. If they are on dial-up and still don't have .NET

Framework, chances are they probably won't for a while. In that case,

they'll more than likely choose the stand alone EXE.



Brett





-

"Mitchell Vincent" <mvincent@newsgroup.nospam>wrote in message

phones but that's another newsgroup.



Brett





-

Mitchell,



I hope that I did not make you angry, you are right, we cannot compare

countries as Andora, Liechtenstein and the Netherlands with the USA.



Cor





-

"Chris Dunaway" <dunawayc@gmail.com>wrote in message

Touche'. They should ADVERTISE A PRICE.





-

How will they continue to sell Thinstall when the next version of Windows

comes out and everybody already has .NET ?



Simply as an obfuscator/encrypter? For $4K?





-

Can this be done by stringing together some Microsoft utilities in a

sufficiently sophisticated way?





-

"Mitchell Vincent" <mvincent@newsgroup.nospam>wrote in message

Crucially, we are a SPARSELY POPULATED country. An awful lot of us live

more than 50 miles from a large city and more than 5 miles from even the

center of a small town. That's very different from Cor's country (which I

presume is the Netherlands).





-

Michael A. Covington wrote:

I don't know but I've never seen anything about it.. If you find

anything please let us all know!



--

- Mitchell Vincent

- kBilling - Invoices Made Easy!

- www.k-billing.com">www.k-billing.com

-

"Michael A. Covington" <look@ai.uga.edu.for.address>wrote in message

business. Every one that purchased their $4k Thinstall is left without

support and upgrades and evetually abandons it for .NET deployment.





-

Cor Ligthert wrote:

Haha! I try not to get angry, Cor, so no worries there my friend!



I *wish* we had broadband in every area around here!



--

- Mitchell Vincent

- kBilling - Invoices Made Easy!

- www.k-billing.com">www.k-billing.com

-

Michael A. Covington wrote:

My town (po-dunk as it may be) just got *affordable* cable modem access

and DSL about 18 months ago. Hard to believe!



--

- Mitchell Vincent

- kBilling - Invoices Made Easy!

- www.k-billing.com">www.k-billing.com

-

Brett <no@spam.com>wrote:

That's certainly an option. Of course, it means running all your tests

on both versions unless you're *really* trusting of Thinstall not to

change behaviour at all (which I certainly wouldn't be).



--

Jon Skeet - <skeet@pobox.com>

www.pobox.com/~skeet">www.pobox.com/~skeet

If replying to the group, please do not mail me too

-

"Brett" <no@spam.com>schrieb:

Use Delphi, VC++, or another programming language that doesn't rely on

separate libraries.



--

M S Herfried K. Wagner

M V P <URL:dotnet.mvps.org/>">dotnet.mvps.org/>

V B <URL:classicvb.org/petition/>">classicvb.org/petition/>



-

I just found another program which looks like it will do the trick and it

costs a lot less. Check out www.molebox.com">www.molebox.com

It doesn't explicitly say it can handle dot net applications but it looks

like it is cpaable of placing the necesary DLL files within the EXE file so

it should be good. I'll be doing some more research into this and I'll let

you all know. A program which costs $99 is a lot more affordable than one

that costs $4000 :)





-

"David Pendrey" <fairydave@dodo.com.au>wrote in message

to. They say support should be available by the time Longhorn is released,

which will come with .NET. Seems as though they get to the ball game a

little to late.

http://www.molestudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.molestudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php=243&highlight=net



Brett





-

"Jon Skeet [C# MVP]" <skeet@pobox.com>wrote in message

Thinstall doesn't change behavior. Once the EXE is created, it does not

change unless you tell it to update itself or the files it contains.



Cool thing about this is that when Microsoft issues a Service Pack that

scerws up something, your Thinstall app is not affected.



If you create a Thinstall app that works, it will always work unless

Microsoft goes and changes the way windows works at a core level......which

is unlikely.



Jim Hubbard





-

Damn, just in time to not be usefull :(





-