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I am looking for a few recomendations on the future of VB.

I am currently using VB5.0 and I understand both it an 6.0 are no longer

going to be supported. With this in mind what would be the best platform to

migrate to with these criteria::

I like the VB language and wish to stay with it as much as possible. I like

the IDE and the easy of use learning curve is not as steep as C++.!!

I will need the ability to write stand alone windows apps!

Wep page development is also in the future!!!

The visual interface of VB is great it make programming that much faster!!

Writing apps for client server!!

There are so many products out there it confusing Visual Studio, Visual

Studio Team etc etc.

And whats Vb 2005 all about???

I will need to make a dicesion on this relativly soon any help is appreciated



Thanks



Mitch


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"Mitch5713" <mitch@nnex.net>wrote in message news:45988AC2-37DA-45B9-

8625-5A9DEEDACAE9@microsoft.com

You are in the same boat as *many* others and there really is no clear-cut

answer. If you can deal with Pascal then Delphi may be a good option. If

you are coding for yourself and not tied to a corporate environment then

RealBasic may be an option.



If you want to stay with MS products, and C++ is out, then I'd say the only

reasonable choice would be C#; MS has demonstrated quite fully that they

consider VB to be disposable and I would not trust them to support VB.Net in

any recognizable fashion but there *may* be longer-term support for C# since

it's possible that they might actually use it themselves and therefore see

value in their own code assets which will protect yours.



Other opinions will differ. You need to weigh the alternatives and the

arguments pro and con for yourself. For me, VB.Net and VB200x and whatever

comes after it are simply not options due to the (lack of) trust issue.



--

Reply to the group so all can participate

VB.Net: "Fool me once..."



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Here you have two issues: The programming language and the development

environment.



Now that VB6 has reached its last version, there are other basic version for

other vendors, Real Basic comes to mind, but finding one tat mmets your

needs as far as programming and a producticve development environment

is another story.



Your decision of going the .NET route should be based on what you need

to get done and how you want to go about it. The first .NET version was

VB.NET 2002, quickly followed by VB. NET 2003. These versions are now

obsolete". The newest incarnation is VB 2005 which could technically be

called vb.NET 2005, except that MS dropped the .Net moniker.



Selecting a succesor to VB6 is not an easy task, although some tend to

prefer C# compared to VB.NET, so I would also take this language into

consideration.



Regardless of what choice you make, a learning curve will most surely

accompany this choice, but how steep it is might depend on more

factors than just the language changes.



Saga









"Mitch5713" <mitchNON@SPAMMEnnex.net>wrote in message



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I suggest that you get a copy of VB 2005 Express Edition (this is free), and

give it a try. There will be lots of stuff that looks familiar -- and lots

that does not. However, the syntax (still) is quite close. BTW, I disagree

with Bob. I use C# only when forced to do so... I'm pretty happy with most

of VB 2005... Though, it is more "work" to use than VB5/6.



Dick



--

Richard Grier, MVP

Hard & Software

Author of Visual Basic Programmer's Guide to Serial Communications, Fourth

Edition,

ISBN 1-890422-28-2 (391 pages, includes CD-ROM). July 2004, Revised March

2006.

See www.hardandsoftware.net for details and contact information.





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"Bob Butler" <tiredofit@nospam.ever>wrote in message

I think that a choice between C# and VB.Net is more matter of taste and

previous experience. I am sure that one - two versions from now these will

be semantically identical by 99-100%. They already very close to each other

and working with one you can easily switch to another with a learning curve

in days or weeks. The most painful decision is whether to go to .NET at all

(having that mentioned trust issue). And if you answer yourself Yes then

choice between C# or VB.NET makes no much difference.



I would start with VB anyway - I still can use most of well-known for me VB

syntax and re-use many of professional habits. After getting experience with

VB.NET I would study C#. I think that an opposite direction is just

illogical.



Many times I saw opinion that similar but not exact syntax is a source of

confusion and as such it is better to use totally different syntax, having

C# in mind. But many of us use VB6 and VBScript, work with differences in MS

Access, MSSQL, Oracle and other dialects and extensions of SQL. Who wants

totally different Query Language for each DBMS just because two are not

precisely identical? No, having knowledge of language basic syntax is much

better start than studying new paradigm COMBINED with studying totally new

syntax. You once mastered suitable [for you] way of making indentations,

naming conventions, you like case-insensitivity for identifiers and many

other small, but important, details - why would you sacrifice it - you still

can re-use much of your knowledge and habits.



Dmitriy.







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Expanding Dick's reply....



There is also a free version of C#, C# Express, so you can download

both languages and try them out.



Saga







"Dick Grier" <dick_grierNOSPAM@.msn.com>wrote in message



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On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 09:04:01 -0700, Mitch5713 <mitch@nnex.net>wrote:



¤ I am looking for a few recomendations on the future of VB.

¤ I am currently using VB5.0 and I understand both it an 6.0 are no longer

¤ going to be supported. With this in mind what would be the best platform to

¤ migrate to with these criteria::

¤ I like the VB language and wish to stay with it as much as possible. I like

¤ the IDE and the easy of use learning curve is not as steep as C++.!!

¤ I will need the ability to write stand alone windows apps!

¤ Wep page development is also in the future!!!

¤ The visual interface of VB is great it make programming that much faster!!

¤ Writing apps for client server!!

¤ There are so many products out there it confusing Visual Studio, Visual

¤ Studio Team etc etc.

¤ And whats Vb 2005 all about???

¤ I will need to make a dicesion on this relativly soon any help is appreciated



C# is much easier to use than C++ but you still have to like the C language syntax. Generally, most

developers either love it or hate it.



You might want to try the Express version of Visual Basic 2005 first (it's free) to see if you still

like the language and the new environment under which it operates.



msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/vb/">msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/vb/





Paul

~~~~

Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)

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Ok, the express editions are free for VB and C#. Is the only way to

get the full version throught Visual Studio? That is what $800 or so?

And that includes all the languages, correct?



How much is the express edition handicapped? What type of things can

you do and not do with the express editions?



Thanks,

Brian



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<blheems@yahoo.com>wrote in message

No. You can get them as part of MSDN Professional Subscription or

higher(Recommended):



msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/products/subscriptions/chart/">msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/products/subscriptions/chart/



You pay subscription for one year, but after it expires you still can use

it, but you don't get any more updates. You also get all Windows operating

systems from Windows 98 and above to test with, including non-English

versions. These can be used for "development, testing, and demonstration

purposes only", not for day to day use. For example, you can't upgrade your

OS from Windows 2000 to XP if you are using that computer for your own

general use.



With MSDN Premium subscription, you get the above plus a copy of Office

Professional Edition 2003 for general commercial use, not just for

development and testing.



Close. On eBay "MSDN Professional Subscription" is listed for $550-$875, I

am not sure though if they are legitimate copies.



Yes.



The only problem is that it requires Windows 2000 Pro or above to install

the Express versions or even VS.Net 2003. So you cannot install Express

versions on Windows 9x. Your compiled code however will run on Windows 98 or

above. See "1.1. System Requirements" here:



msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/support/readme/">msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/support/readme/









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"expvb" <nobody@cox.net>wrote in message

I forgot to mention that when you get MSDN Professional Subscription, you

also can download and use Visual Studio 6.0(Including VB6) in addition to VS

2005 for commercial purposes.







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While he's at it, he can give Delphi a try for free as well. Difference is

that you can distribute Delphi apps as commercial apps even with the free

version. It's not VB, but it's not all that different either. What's more,

you can write code so that it can be used in Win32 and .Net.



www.turboexplorer.com



There are a few things I'd still like to see them do, but it's really darned

good. What's more, the developers of it actually use it unlike VB<sigh>.



Dan













"Dick Grier" <dick_grierNOSPAM@.msn.com>wrote in message



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Mitch



If preserving code assets are not a concern, then I would consider whatever

looks interesting to you. If you like the way VB5 feels, try Realbasic (which

I think is as close as you are going to get to VB6). If you want to stick

with Microsoft, try out the VB2005 (although it is overwhelming as compared

to VB5/6). You may feel right at home with Delphi as well, or, even Java.



I guess my point is, if you are basically starting fresh with no dependency

on legacy code you have written, why not look at everything that is available

-





--

Anthony Dunleavy

onenerd.blogspot.com/">onenerd.blogspot.com/











"expvb" wrote:

"Saga" <antiSpam@somewhere.com>wrote in message



Just to keep the waters muddy there is also a free VC++ 2005 Express with

CLI.



Hell, if you are going to make a big jump, why make it a really big one. <g>



-ralph





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"Mitch5713" <mitch@nnex.net>wrote in message

To add again to the pile, for whatever it is worth. For some dumb reason C#

programmers average more an hour than VB.Net programmers.



The difference was difficult to justify when it was C++ vs.VB. With C#

vs.VB.Net it is absolutely idiotic, but it is there just the same.



-ralph







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"expvb" <nobody@cox.net>wrote in message

It's been a while since you've logged into MSDN, eh? <g>Visual Studio 6.0

is no longer available. You can still download and use VB6 though.



--

Ken Halter - MS-MVP-VB - Please keep all discussions in the groups..

In Loving Memory - www.vbsight.com/Remembrance.htm">www.vbsight.com/Remembrance.htm





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It is that the language name has a "C' in it, thus classier, thus higher

paying. :-S



Agreed.

Saga



"Ralph" <nt_consulting64@yahoo.com>wrote in message



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On 21 Sep 2006 11:20:02 -0700, blheems@yahoo.com wrote:



¤ Ok, the express editions are free for VB and C#. Is the only way to

¤ get the full version throught Visual Studio? That is what $800 or so?

¤ And that includes all the languages, correct?



Yes, I believe this is the case. Visual Basic Express 2005 more or less replaced Visual Basic.NET

2003 Standard Edition. If you want a higher-level version then you would have to go with Visual

Studio 2005 which has a unified development environment for all languages and project types.



¤

¤ How much is the express edition handicapped? What type of things can

¤ you do and not do with the express editions?



The below link should help:



msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/products/compare/">msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/products/compare/





Paul

~~~~

Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)

-

Hi Dan,



I think that you can use any of the Express versions to create a commercial

app, too. These may or may not be "the way to go." FWIW.



Dick



--

Richard Grier, MVP

Hard & Software

Author of Visual Basic Programmer's Guide to Serial Communications, Fourth

Edition,

ISBN 1-890422-28-2 (391 pages, includes CD-ROM). July 2004, Revised March

2006.

See www.hardandsoftware.net for details and contact information.





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"Dick Grier" <dick_grierNOSPAM@.msn.com>wrote in message

That could be the case now. As I recall when they first came out the

license didn't allow you to do anything but evaluate. I could be

misremembering that too. It's been a while and I've slept since then<g>.



Dan







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Thanks for the advice, but (of course) one more question.



I am currently using VB6 SP5 and don't want to upgrade to SP6. If I

download these Express evaluation copies from MS will that force me to

get the SP6 stuff from MS?



Thanks,

Brian



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blheems@yahoo.com wrote:

No.



But don't give them ideas.

-

Just saw this at msdn.microsoft.com/vbrun/vistasupport.aspx">msdn.microsoft.com/vbrun/vistasupport.aspx



The Visual Basic team is committed to "It Just Works" compatibility for

Visual Basic 6.0 applications on Windows® VistaT.



The Visual Basic team's goal is that Visual Basic 6.0 applications that run

on Windows XP will also run on Windows Vista. The Visual Basic team is also

committed to the Visual Basic 6.0 development environment running on Windows

Vista. As detailed in this document, the Visual Basic 6.0 runtime will be

supported for the full lifetime of Windows Vista, which is 5 years of

mainstream support followed by five years of extended support.

[support.microsoft.com/gp/lifepolicy]">support.microsoft.com/gp/lifepolicy]





"Mitch5713" <mitch@nnex.net>wrote in message



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Well, I have the contrary opinion that Dmitriy alluded to. I would

recommend VB programmers go to C# rather than VB.NET if that is the

choice. I think that veteran VB programmers typically have a library

of routines and techniques they have used, and are tempted to try to

use them in VB.NET, which is not always a good idea.



An alternative direction would be to took at scripting languages. To

me, a big niche for VB6 development was in-house utilities and small

shop apps ( as opposed to large-scale enterprise applications). For

this, I sometimes find .NET apps to be overkill. I don't know a lot

about python and ruby, et al, but I get the feeling that there's many

areas where these are a more appropriate technology than .NET, but that

the PR stuff ("Look, you can write this .NET database front-end in 2

seconds!") kind of leads us to ignore them.



Dmitriy Antonov wrote:

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Marketeer Fluff, pure and simple.



"the Visual Basic 6.0>>RUNTIME<< will be supported for the full lifetime of

Windows Vista"



Yes, this has been out a while. Emphasis mine. I'm glad they're doing

that, but I question how helpful it is in the real world. Here is the

kicker:



"Microsoft is unable to provide support for third party components, such as

OCX/ActiveX controls. Customers are encouraged to contact the original

control vendor for details on support for those components."



Have you tried contacting original control vendor for a typical load of 3rd

party controls? I hope they work. With the "no path forward" abandonment

of the developer base the overall support infrastructure for VB6 has

withered. That third party community, with one exception I'm aware of, is

long gone.



In previous upgrades the component vendors' customers would likely "move up"

with new versions of the controls. The component vendors, therefore, had

reason to keep them happy by also making sure the components were reliable

in their previous form for quite a while. By not providing a way for the

component vendors' customers to move forward, the component vendors don't

have the business, don't have those customers to keep happy, so are gone.



For those that exclusively use the runtime, great. Some do, but it's not

all that common in the real world.



The overall ClassicVB community is "just there". It's not dead yet, but

it's not "living" either.



Dan







"Darhl Thomason" <darhlt@papamurphys.nospamplease.com>wrote in message



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Mitch5713 wrote:

If you use the graphic (CIRCLE, LINE, etc) and print engine (PRINTER

object) of VB5 extensively then you will have a fair amount of work

converting to .NET not matter the specific langauge.



If your application is something that is your bread and butter then you

want to pick a langauge that either has multiple alternatives, open

source, or has a vendor with a proven track record of support.



If it an application that is mainly used internally at a company then

the above is important but you will need to consider how easy the new

language is to develop in.



VB.NET/C# have estentially the same capabilities. Small tweaks make a

few tasks easier in the one than the other. One thing you have to know

is that at some point .NET code is reduced to IL (intermediate

langauge) . And they all use the same IL. There are parsers and

converter that easily translate between VB.NET/C# and other .NET

dialect.



So the real question for .NET is that what will the future who how long

Microsoft will support it. Microsoft isn't that trustworthy of a

vendor. Any new long-term project using Microsoft technologies will at

some point get hammered by Microsoft dropping support. But for .NET

specifically the Mono Project has an independent open source

implementation of VB.NET and C#. So if Microsoft decides to axe .NET

then there is an alternative that will cost less to use then a

conversion to another langauge.



.NET strong point is that while there are a lot of annoying, pointless

and stupid differences in VB.NET vs VB5/6 it is still BASIC and still

feels like you are coding BASIC when using Visual Studio 2005 or VB

Express.



Delphi was and continues to be a strong competitor to Visual Basic.

Borland continues to support this. It is powerful, rich, and has a

community supporting it with 3rd party add-ons. Plus there is a open

source implementation called FreePascal that is an alternative if

Borland ever goes down.



Java has a lot of support and alternatives. But using gets into the

same problems if you used Mono and FreePascal. It cross-platform

capabilities makes it a little harder to make a windows program.



If you want to go into web programming there are variety of scripting

and AJAX packages that are well supported, open source, and/or have

alternatives.



As for the rest, it gets harder and harder to put together easily all

the packages and libraries for a complete development of an

application. Not saying they it can be done but they rapidly diverage

from what we are used to developing with Visual Basic.



Finally if you use a C type langauge (C#/C++/Java) the most

frustrrating thing to deal with is it terseness. I develop a open

source simulation of historical space capsules

(www.ibiblio.org/mscorbit)">www.ibiblio.org/mscorbit) so I switch between C++ and VB6 on a

regular basis. My opinion is that the english like nature of BASIC is a

little easier to maintain then the terse use of { } and semi-colons in

C langauges.





Rob Conley



P.S. I think it stupid as hell that VB.NET programmer are paid less

than C# but it is true.



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I've coded with VB 2005 and I must say it has a lot of new features that

even VB6 now lacks.



I personally like Generics very much because it incarnates the spirit of VB:

get it done quicklly and in a manner that works.

C# doesn't support generics.



However, I still find that programming in VB6 is a lot faster and the

compiled executables seem to be faster.



I still refuse to upgrade my code base because many things still don't work

with the Upgrade Wizard.

For example just try sugin some of the controls from vbaccelerator.com (like

the imagelist) and run the upgarde wizard.



The resulting forms won't even open on VB2005 Form Designer. They fail with

an exception...



Another thing are DataReports which as far as I know are not upgraded, thus

making you re-make all the reports from scratch...







"Mitch5713" <mitch@nnex.net>escreveu na mensagem



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