bootup problem

Windows XP Support >> bootup problem hi
i have a booting problem,it started a week ago, it gets as far as mem test
ok, or to checking drives, then stops/hangs, the hd light pulses appr 1sec
with a light beeping sound, it took 3/4 resets to bootup, ( no prob on warm
reboot)
i have done a clean install of xp pro inc sp2. with no updates.
with the same result. only needs 1 reset to bootup now.
i have run seagate`s hd testing tool`s all passed.

can anyone shed any light on this problem

mb optronix with amd sepron 2.8 ghz
thanks in advance

Windows XP848

Windows XP Support >> bootup problem Please post copies of all Error and Warning Reports appearing in
the System and Application logs in Event Viewer for the last boot. No
Information Reports or Duplicates please. Indicate which also appear in
a previous boot.

You can access Event Viewer by selecting Start, Control Panel,
Administrative Tools, and Event Viewer. When researching the meaning
of the error, information regarding Event ID, Source and Description
are important.

A tip for posting copies of Error Reports! Run Event Viewer and double
click on the error you want to copy. In the window, which appears is a
button resembling two pages. Click the button and close Event
Viewer.Now start your message (email) and do a paste into the body of
the message. Make sure this is the first paste after exiting from
Event Viewer.

Are there any yellow question marks in Device Manager? Right click on
the My Computer icon on your Desktop and select Properties,
Hardware,Device Manager. If yes what is the Device Error code?

--

Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

twizzle350 wrote:
> hi
> i have a booting problem,it started a week ago, it gets as far as mem
> test ok, or to checking drives, then stops/hangs, the hd light pulses
> appr 1sec with a light beeping sound, it took 3/4 resets to bootup,
> ( no prob on warm reboot)
> i have done a clean install of xp pro inc sp2. with no updates.
> with the same result. only needs 1 reset to bootup now.
> i have run seagate`s hd testing tool`s all passed.
>
> can anyone shed any light on this problem
>
> mb optronix with amd sepron 2.8 ghz
> thanks in advance

Windows XP Support >> bootup problem if you did a reinstall
and it was successful
but still have a problem
its likely to be a physical
hardware related issue
you are experiencing.

what you might want
to do is to look in your
cmos and ensure your
settings are correct.

if by chance a setting
was wrong in the cmos/bios
then rebooting might
be what is allowing you
to boot the disk.

another possibility is that
if your system is set to
boot from the cd, and
it is faulty, then it could
cause a problem too.

yet another possibility
might be a faulty power
supply.

as you can see by the above
it would seem that the possibilities
for your issue are likely related
to an issue with a hardware
and not windows.

there is a funny little trick
you might try in the interim.

press and hold the up-arrow
key immediately after the
mem test at boot up.

and let us know if
you get a little menu...

if you do, make a selection
and report back.

--

db Â·Â´Â¯`Â·.Â¸. , . .Â·Â´Â¯`Â·..><)))Âº>`Â·.Â¸Â¸.Â·Â´Â¯`Â·.Â¸.Â·Â´Â¯`Â·...Â¸><)))Âº>Â¸.
><)))Âº>Â·Â´Â¯`Â·.Â¸. , . .Â·Â´Â¯`Â·.. ><)))Âº>`Â·.Â¸Â¸.Â·Â´Â¯`Â·.Â¸.Â·Â´Â¯`Â·...Â¸><)))Âº>

.

"twizzle350" <EMail@HideDomain.com> wrote in message
news:EMail@HideDomain.com...
> hi
> i have a booting problem,it started a week ago, it gets as far as mem test
> ok, or to checking drives, then stops/hangs, the hd light pulses appr 1sec
> with a light beeping sound, it took 3/4 resets to bootup, ( no prob on warm
> reboot)
> i have done a clean install of xp pro inc sp2. with no updates.
> with the same result. only needs 1 reset to bootup now.
> i have run seagate`s hd testing tool`s all passed.
>
> can anyone shed any light on this problem
>
> mb optronix with amd sepron 2.8 ghz
> thanks in advance

Windows XP Support >> bootup problem hi gerry
these are the 2 app logs, they are the same as the previous bootup,
there are no yellow ? marks or wrngs in system log from 21/12/07
and no yellow ? in device manager.
i had to reboot 4 times today.

Event Type: Warning
Event Source: EvntAgnt
Event Category: None
Event ID: 1015
Date: 28/12/2007
Time: 17:25:17
User: N/A
Computer: MICHAEL-904D05C
Description:
TraceLevel parameter not located in registry; Default trace level used is 32.

For more information, see Help and Support Center at
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.

Event Type: Warning
Event Source: EvntAgnt
Event Category: None
Event ID: 1003
Date: 28/12/2007
Time: 17:25:17
User: N/A
Computer: MICHAEL-904D05C
Description:
TraceFileName parameter not located in registry; Default trace file used is .

For more information, see Help and Support Center at
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.

"Gerry" wrote:

Please post copies of all Error and Warning Reports appearing in
the System and Application logs in Event Viewer for the last boot. No
Information Reports or Duplicates please. Indicate which also appear in
a previous boot.

You can access Event Viewer by selecting Start, Control Panel,
Administrative Tools, and Event Viewer. When researching the meaning
of the error, information regarding Event ID, Source and Description
are important.

A tip for posting copies of Error Reports! Run Event Viewer and double
click on the error you want to copy. In the window, which appears is a
button resembling two pages. Click the button and close Event
Viewer.Now start your message (email) and do a paste into the body of
the message. Make sure this is the first paste after exiting from
Event Viewer.

Are there any yellow question marks in Device Manager? Right click on
the My Computer icon on your Desktop and select Properties,
Hardware,Device Manager. If yes what is the Device Error code?

Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

twizzle350 wrote: hi
i have a booting problem,it started a week ago, it gets as far as mem
test ok, or to checking drives, then stops/hangs, the hd light pulses
appr 1sec with a light beeping sound, it took 3/4 resets to bootup,
( no prob on warm reboot)
i have done a clean install of xp pro inc sp2. with no updates.
with the same result. only needs 1 reset to bootup now.
i have run seagate`s hd testing tool`s all passed.

can anyone shed any light on this problem

mb optronix with amd sepron 2.8 ghz
thanks in advance

Windows XP Support >> bootup problem
"db Â´Â¯`Â·.. ><)))Âº>` .. ." wrote:
there is a funny little trick
you might try in the interim.

press and hold the up-arrow
key immediately after the
mem test at boot up.

and let us know if
you get a little menu...

if you do, make a selection
and report back.

db

hi db
tried your trick nothing happend :-)
my first boot device is floppy drive ( changed back after xp install)
i dont touch the bios or cmos,as i dont know what i am doing.
i tried swapping my dvd with my cd as the primary master, just the same.
installed a new kingston 1gig mem aswell

Windows XP Support >> bootup problem well, the trick is tricky
in itself and gots to be
super alert as to when
to press it.

however, it might be a
good time to inquire about
your bios and you
should visit your computers
homesite and study this
very important feature.

now a days, the cmos/bios
is more informational and
user friendly. most also have
a button to automatically
search for hardware that
is connected.

but there is no assurance that this is
error free process and at times requires
a human to double check
the bios.

one of the reasons that
familiarization with the bios
is important is because when
you connect different hardware
to the motherboard the bios has
to recognize them.

so as you have been switching
between floppy, cd and dvd,
then the bios may have automatically
recognize the devices as you changed
them. but there is no guarantee.

so you will need to roll up your
sleeves and take a look under the
hood, e.g. cmos/bios.

if and when you do, be sure
to set the primary/main harddrive
as the "boot up" device, instead
of a cd, dvd, or floppy.

here is an excerpt from a
microsoft kb explaining
a bit more on the bios.

but you should also review
your computers user manual
and or the homesite:

-------------------------------

SUMMARY
When you start your computer, the basic input/output system (BIOS) checks (among
other things) the system-specific settings that are stored in the complementary
metal-oxide semiconductor (CMOS) chip. You can modify these settings as the
system changes.

To change the CMOS settings, you must enter CMOS Setup by pressing a specific
key or a combination of keys during the initial startup sequence. For example,
press DEL or CTRL+ALT+ESC during the startup. (The specific key combination that
you press is typically indicated during startup as "Press <keyname> to enter
Setup".)

After you have entered Setup, windows that display various options and settings
appear. Some of these options are standard, while others are specific to the
BIOS manufacturer.

--

db Â·Â´Â¯`Â·.Â¸. , . .Â·Â´Â¯`Â·..><)))Âº>`Â·.Â¸Â¸.Â·Â´Â¯`Â·.Â¸.Â·Â´Â¯`Â·...Â¸><)))Âº>Â¸.
><)))Âº>Â·Â´Â¯`Â·.Â¸. , . .Â·Â´Â¯`Â·.. ><)))Âº>`Â·.Â¸Â¸.Â·Â´Â¯`Â·.Â¸.Â·Â´Â¯`Â·...Â¸><)))Âº>

.

"twizzle350" <EMail@HideDomain.com> wrote in message
news:EMail@HideDomain.com...
>
> "db Â´Â¯`Â·.. ><)))Âº>` .. ." wrote:
> there is a funny little trick
> you might try in the interim.
>
> press and hold the up-arrow
> key immediately after the
> mem test at boot up.
>
> and let us know if
> you get a little menu...
>
> if you do, make a selection
> and report back.
>
> db
>
> hi db
> tried your trick nothing happend :-)
> my first boot device is floppy drive ( changed back after xp install)
> i dont touch the bios or cmos,as i dont know what i am doing.
> i tried swapping my dvd with my cd as the primary master, just the same.
> installed a new kingston 1gig mem aswell
>
>
>
>

Windows XP Support >> bootup problem What is your computer make and model?

How old is the computer?

Do you have a Windows XP CD and does that CD include the SP2 update?

Try Start, Run, type "sigverif.exe" without quotes and hit OK. What
drivers are listed as unsigned? Disregard those which are not checked.

Try running HD Tune(freeware).

Download and run it and see what it turns up.
http://www.hdtune.com/

Select the Info tabs and place the cursor on the drive under Drive
letter and then double click the two page icon ( copy to Clipboard )
and copy into a further message.

Select the Health tab and then double click the two page icon ( copy to
Clipboard ) and copy into a further message. You can also do a full
surface scan with HD Tune.

Do you encounter problems if you boot into safe mode.

What changes, if any, were made to hardware and software immediately
before the problem first arose?

--

Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

twizzle350 wrote:
> hi gerry
> these are the 2 app logs, they are the same as the previous bootup,
> there are no yellow ? marks or wrngs in system log from 21/12/07
> and no yellow ? in device manager.
> i had to reboot 4 times today.
>
> Event Type: Warning
> Event Source: EvntAgnt
> Event Category: None
> Event ID: 1015
> Date: 28/12/2007
> Time: 17:25:17
> User: N/A
> Computer: MICHAEL-904D05C
> Description:
> TraceLevel parameter not located in registry; Default trace level
> used is 32.
>
> For more information, see Help and Support Center at
> http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
>
> Event Type: Warning
> Event Source: EvntAgnt
> Event Category: None
> Event ID: 1003
> Date: 28/12/2007
> Time: 17:25:17
> User: N/A
> Computer: MICHAEL-904D05C
> Description:
> TraceFileName parameter not located in registry; Default trace file
> used is .
>
> For more information, see Help and Support Center at
> http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
>
>
> "Gerry" wrote:
>
> Please post copies of all Error and Warning Reports appearing in
> the System and Application logs in Event Viewer for the last boot. No
> Information Reports or Duplicates please. Indicate which also appear
> in
> a previous boot.
>
> You can access Event Viewer by selecting Start, Control Panel,
> Administrative Tools, and Event Viewer. When researching the meaning
> of the error, information regarding Event ID, Source and Description
> are important.
>
> A tip for posting copies of Error Reports! Run Event Viewer and double
> click on the error you want to copy. In the window, which appears is a
> button resembling two pages. Click the button and close Event
> Viewer.Now start your message (email) and do a paste into the body of
> the message. Make sure this is the first paste after exiting from
> Event Viewer.
>
> Are there any yellow question marks in Device Manager? Right click on
> the My Computer icon on your Desktop and select Properties,
> Hardware,Device Manager. If yes what is the Device Error code?
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Gerry
> ~~~~
> FCA
> Stourport, England
> Enquire, plan and execute
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
> twizzle350 wrote: hi
> i have a booting problem,it started a week ago, it gets as far as mem
> test ok, or to checking drives, then stops/hangs, the hd light pulses
> appr 1sec with a light beeping sound, it took 3/4 resets to bootup,
> ( no prob on warm reboot)
> i have done a clean install of xp pro inc sp2. with no updates.
> with the same result. only needs 1 reset to bootup now.
> i have run seagate`s hd testing tool`s all passed.
>
> can anyone shed any light on this problem
>
> mb optronix with amd sepron 2.8 ghz
> thanks in advance

Windows XP Support >> bootup problem hi db
last night i set HDO as my first boot device.
today on bootup it did not get as far as the mem test before hanging ?
1st reset it got halfway through mem test before stopping,
2nd reset stopped after mem test
3rd reset stopped after clock DDR333
4th reset it booted.
i have run windows memory diagnosic tool (all passed)
the bios has reconised dvd & cd drive changes.
tried again pressing up arrow after mem test, still no window came up.
where to go from here?

Windows XP Support >> bootup problem What is your computer make and model?

How old is the computer?

Do you have a Windows XP CD and does that CD include the SP2 update?

Try Start, Run, type "sigverif.exe" without quotes and hit OK. What
drivers are listed as unsigned? Disregard those which are not checked.

Try running HD Tune(freeware).

Download and run it and see what it turns up.
http://www.hdtune.com/

Select the Info tabs and place the cursor on the drive under Drive
letter and then double click the two page icon ( copy to Clipboard )
and copy into a further message.

Select the Health tab and then double click the two page icon ( copy to
Clipboard ) and copy into a further message. You can also do a full
surface scan with HD Tune.

Do you encounter problems if you boot into safe mode.

What changes, if any, were made to hardware and software immediately
before the problem first arose?

--

Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

twizzle350 wrote:
> hi db
> last night i set HDO as my first boot device.
> today on bootup it did not get as far as the mem test before hanging ?
> 1st reset it got halfway through mem test before stopping,
> 2nd reset stopped after mem test
> 3rd reset stopped after clock DDR333
> 4th reset it booted.
> i have run windows memory diagnosic tool (all passed)
> the bios has reconised dvd & cd drive changes.
> tried again pressing up arrow after mem test, still no window came up.
> where to go from here?

Windows XP Support >> bootup problem On Dec 29, 8:25=A0am, twizzle350 <EMail@HideDomain.com>
wrote:
> i have run windows memory diagnosic tool (all passed)
> the bios has reconised dvd & cd drive changes.
> tried again pressing up arrow after mem test, still no window came up.
> where to go from here?

Windows diagnostics are not informative. Furthermore, memory
diagnostics do not report good memory until executed also with system
in a 100 degree F room (completely normal temperature to any good
computer) or with memory heated by a hair dryer on highest setting. To
memory, 'pigs heaven' is being so warm as to be uncomfortable to touch
but not so hot as to leave skin when touched. Memory diagnostic must
also work at those temperatures before declaring memory as good.

All suggestions are classic shotgunning. Could be this or could be
that or ... Now tell me which parts you know are 'definitively good'
or 'definitively bad'. You can't. Therefore nothing has been
accomplished. From here on, we discuss how to accomplish something.

The one system that can make everything appear bad or intermittent
is the power supply 'system'. Power supply is only one 'system'
component. You must move the 'system' from 'unknown' to 'definitively
something'. A two minute procedure does just that: "When your
computer dies without warning....." starting 6 Feb 2007 in the
newsgroup alt.windows-xp at:
http://tinyurl.com/yvf9vh

And then numbers exist so that better informed posters will reply
when those numbers are posted. Especially informative are numbers
from orange, red, yellow, and purple wires when system is under max
load created by multitasking. Only move on to other suspects when the
supply 'system' is definitively good,

What will make your problem exponentially more complex? Reloading
Windows on a defective hardware is foolish. The informed technician
never replaced anything on speculation. First the suspect is
identified. Only then is only the suspect replaced.

Better computer manufacturers provide comprehensive hardware
diagnostics for free. If yours is from an inferior manufacturer, then
download diagnostics from component manufacturers or third parties.
The list of components that can shut down a preemptive multitasking OS
is limited to power supply, sound card, video controller, CPU, memory,
and some motherboard functions. Those other suspects are 'tested'
once the power supply 'system' is 'definitively good'. Anything that
is still 'unknown' means no useful work was accomplished. That says
shotgunning is wasted time and is how your problem could become
exponentially complex. Do not replace a part only on speculation.

Windows XP Support >> bootup problem well setting the hd
as boot up is good.

now what i suspect
is the ram.

you mentioned getting
a 1gb, then you mentioned
ddr333.

so did you have
this trouble prior to
get more ram?

--

db Â·Â´Â¯`Â·.Â¸. , . .Â·Â´Â¯`Â·..><)))Âº>`Â·.Â¸Â¸.Â·Â´Â¯`Â·.Â¸.Â·Â´Â¯`Â·...Â¸><)))Âº>Â¸.
><)))Âº>Â·Â´Â¯`Â·.Â¸. , . .Â·Â´Â¯`Â·.. ><)))Âº>`Â·.Â¸Â¸.Â·Â´Â¯`Â·.Â¸.Â·Â´Â¯`Â·...Â¸><)))Âº>

.

"twizzle350" <EMail@HideDomain.com> wrote in message
news:EMail@HideDomain.com...
> hi db
> last night i set HDO as my first boot device.
> today on bootup it did not get as far as the mem test before hanging ?
> 1st reset it got halfway through mem test before stopping,
> 2nd reset stopped after mem test
> 3rd reset stopped after clock DDR333
> 4th reset it booted.
> i have run windows memory diagnosic tool (all passed)
> the bios has reconised dvd & cd drive changes.
> tried again pressing up arrow after mem test, still no window came up.
> where to go from here?

Windows XP Support >> bootup problem

"db" wrote:
now what i suspect
is the ram.
you mentioned getting
a 1gb, then you mentioned
ddr333.-------------------------this ref is on bootup eg:mem test >clock
speed > checking ide drives etc

so did you have
this trouble prior to
get more ram? ------------- no, this new ram has been working ok for
approx 8 mths

this is why i done a hd format and clean install.

Windows XP Support >> bootup problem "Gerry" wrote:
What is your computer make and model?-----custom built by computer shop

How old is the computer?------ approx 2yrs

Do you have a Windows XP CD and does that CD include the SP2 update?----yes

Try Start, Run, type "sigverif.exe" without quotes and hit OK. What
drivers are listed as unsigned? Disregard those which are not checked.

no drivers listed mostly dll`s & help files + 4 exe + a few others

Try running HD Tune(freeware).
Download and run it and see what it turns up.--------- looks ok, no events
or others
http://www.hdtune.com/

Select the Info tabs and place the cursor on the drive under Drive
letter and then double click the two page icon ( copy to Clipboard )
and copy into a further message.

Select the Health tab and then double click the two page icon ( copy to
Clipboard ) and copy into a further message. You can also do a full
surface scan with HD Tune.

Do you encounter problems if you boot into safe mode.----- havent tried
safe mode

What changes, if any, were made to hardware and software immediately
before the problem first arose?------ no changes, its been running ok for
approx 8mths

gerry, would it be better if we done a remote assistance?
then you could maybe see whats happening.

thanks mike

Windows XP Support >> bootup problem ok.

but take a moment and
see the big picture and
read your prior posting,
regarding 4 resets.

the issue you are having
is starting prior to reading
the boot sector on the hd.

the polite emphasis on
the above is the word "prior"
as in prior to initializing the hd your
bios encounters a fault.

mem tests are helpful, however
how many resets does is take
before you can initiate a mem test.

some bios have additional
settings to configure the ram
and settings to optimize/
overclock the performance
of the ram and sometimes
this tweak cannot be used.

if you have two chips of ram
then they need to be exactly
the same.
--

db Â·Â´Â¯`Â·.Â¸. , . .Â·Â´Â¯`Â·..><)))Âº>`Â·.Â¸Â¸.Â·Â´Â¯`Â·.Â¸.Â·Â´Â¯`Â·...Â¸><)))Âº>Â¸.
><)))Âº>Â·Â´Â¯`Â·.Â¸. , . .Â·Â´Â¯`Â·.. ><)))Âº>`Â·.Â¸Â¸.Â·Â´Â¯`Â·.Â¸.Â·Â´Â¯`Â·...Â¸><)))Âº>

.

"twizzle350" <EMail@HideDomain.com> wrote in message
news:EMail@HideDomain.com...
>
>
> "db" wrote:
> now what i suspect
> is the ram.
> you mentioned getting
> a 1gb, then you mentioned
> ddr333.-------------------------this ref is on bootup eg:mem test >clock
> speed > checking ide drives etc
>
> so did you have
> this trouble prior to
> get more ram? ------------- no, this new ram has been working ok for
> approx 8 mths
>
> this is why i done a hd format and clean install.
>

Windows XP Support >> bootup problem hi db
i have just removed the 1gig ram stick. and installed a 512 ram stick,
results are still the same on bootup, eg: mem test ok
system clock ddr333
checking for ide
drives
system stops/hangs
hd light flashing every second with a beeping sound every second coming
from the motherboard?
3 resets to bootup today.
bios set to optimised defaults, as per mb manual.

Windows XP Support >> bootup problem On Dec 29, 2:33 pm, twizzle350 <EMail@HideDomain.com>
wrote:
> this is why i done a hd format and clean install.

All those symptoms say nothing about the OS as relevant. If memory
was failing during BIOS, then why did the BIOS memory test not detect
that error and report it? During memory test, BIOS does not even use
untested memory. So why did the system crash sometimes during memory
testing?

Your actions contradict what symptoms are saying. Things such as
the CD-Rom were completely irrelevant. But again, what is the one
component (subsystem) that can cause each of those failures? It was
listed in the previous post.

After all that work, what have you accomplished? Nothing is known
'definitively good'. Therefore nothing has been accomplished.
Previous post described how to eliminate potential suspects. That
previous post addressed what may cause all your failures. And that
previous post described how to get answers without doubt.

Is memory good or bad? After all that work, memory is still
unknown. And after all that work, memory does not explain some of the
boot failure symptoms. After all that work, nothing has been
accomplished, we are no closer to identifying the problem, and now a
new variable has been added - OS reinstalled when hardware may be
defective.

8 months ago, it is possible that this computer had this defect.
Yes, a computer with a defective power supply can boot fine and run
for months. Eventually strange things start to happen. Two minute
procedure that might found this defect then and could create
'definitively good' or 'definitively bad' answers is also the
procedure that could have identified this defect 8 months ago.

Is memory defective? Well the memory diagnostic that works without
Windows would have answered that question long ago - definitively.

BIOS gets so far and then crashes. Well, crashes define limited
hardware involved. Each BIOS crash involves what software; especially
never involves Windows? Posted previous is the short list of
potential suspects. Many things 'fixed' were never on that list. A
list now made even shorter by those symptoms.

Previously posted is how to step through the problem - change each
potential suspect from unknown to 'definitively good'. Accomplishment
is measured by a list of things no longer 'unknown'. Currently that
list is remains empty after so much work. Demonstrates that
shotgunning accomplished little.

Windows XP Support >> bootup problem On Dec 30, 7:20=A0am, twizzle350 <EMail@HideDomain.com>
wrote:
> hi db
> i have just removed the 1gig ram stick. and installed a 512 ram stick,
> results are still the same on bootup, eg: mem test ok
> =A0 system clock ddr333
> =A0 =A0checking for ide drives
> =A0 =A0 system stops/hangs
> =A0hd light flashing every second with a beeping sound every second coming=

> from the motherboard?

This is before or after memory is tested. One beep repeated is
typically failure of clocks or CPU - failures long before even memory
is tested. You BIOS is which? But again, you symptoms are limited to
the short list in my original post. To advance on that problem, your
solution is found in that original post. What you are doing is simply
reporting again the same things found in your original post - and
making no progress. This problem is not that complex. But as they say
in CSI - follow the evidence. You are not doing that.

What does the BIOS test every time without failure? What is the
BIOS manufacturer so that the beep code can be translated into
English? Have you executed manufacturer's comprehensive diagnostics
created to solve your kind of problem?

Windows XP Support >> bootup problem w_tom
thanks for your input. i am a mechanical person, not a computer/electrical
person.
i have to try and do the basic elemination`s that i know of.
hd tested ok
mem/ram changed and tested ok (hot tested)
cables checked ok
dvd & cd drives swapped over
bios first boot device changed to hdo, from floppy
driver`s checked ok
pc health ok
no event elerts

my next move is to checkout ,or replace the power supply?
if thats ok then the only thing left that i can think of is a fault in the mb?

Windows XP Support >> bootup problem On Dec 30, 8:43 am, twizzle350 <EMail@HideDomain.com>
wrote:
> my next move is to checkout ,or replace the power supply?
> if thats ok then the only thing left that i can think of is a fault in the mb?

Again, you are speculating. Some of the things declared OK are
(from what I read) are still unknown. Don't replace anything.
Shotgunning a power supply may only complicate your problem and will
not provide a useful answer.

In that last post, I asked some questions. Those questions were not
rhetorical. Questions you should have had answers for long ago - in
order to "follow the evidence". For example, the computer was beeping
repeatedly. Now learn beep language. But which dialect? Well, what
is the BIOS manufacturer? Notice the difference between your
procedure of only speculating (sometimes in direct contradiction to
the facts) and then testing; verses the method recommend - "follow the
evidence".

Again, much of those facts - especially numbers - are how you get
replies from the better informed.

Asked was about reports from comprehensive hardware diagnostics.
That also was not a rhetorical question. You cannot selectively
answer questions and expect useful replies. Every question asked was
laser burning into your problem. And it it sounded hard, then it was
the better answer and, BTW, was not hard.

Again, your list of 'accomplishments' is near zero. HD was
completely irrelevant - should not have been tested.

Memory (ram) remains "unknown". Your testing procedure does not say
memory is good. I don't remember if I posted a 'definitive'
solution. But swapping parts did not prove anything 'definitive'.
Your later posts suggest memory was not even involved. Again, nothing
accomplished.

How did you check cables? Not that cable have anything to do with
BIOS crashing.

DVD and CD Rom completely irrelevant, not even on the longer list of
potential subjects, and again nothing accomplished.

Changing what BIOS boots from - irrelevant since you have a beep
code. Long before anything was booting, a complete failure was
detected and reported. Nothing accomplished since you still don't
speak beep.

Drivers checked? Checked for what? Drivers are relevant only
after booting. Your failure occurs before booting. Again, nothing
accomplished.

PC health OK? What says that? Did you run the manufacturer's
comprehensive hardware diagnostics? I don't see anything that says PC
health is OK - especially since he machine intermittently does not
boot.

No events in system (event) log and no problems in Device Manager.
Right idea. Then later, the problem was occurring before booting
meaning that Operating System information is irrelevant. You have a
hardware problem before any software loads (according to how I read
your posts). Therefore why are you looking at Windows? Again,
nothing accomplished.

Swapping a power supply does nothing. The original post says
exactly what is necessary to make 'definitively good' the one system
(more than a power supply) that can make all others defective. "When
your computer dies without warning....." starting 6 Feb 2007 in the
newsgroup alt.windows-xp at:
http://tinyurl.com/yvf9vh

Disconnect nothing. Get numbers. Get conclusions from those
numbers AND get useful other information by posting those numbers
here. Again, did you read the short list of potential suspects in
that original post? All that labor ignores facts on the table (in
that original post) and therefore accomplished nothing useful.

You are randomly 'checking' things. Stop analysis by wild
speculation. Get facts (ie beep code). Follow the evidence as is
even taught in a TV show called CSI. Provided was the short list of
potential suspects. That is where you should have been looking. Of
course, that two minute procedure should have been done long ago.

Windows XP Support >> bootup problem
Mike:
I realize this thread has been going on for some time and that you've
received a good deal of information and suggestions re your problem.
Assuming you're not too weary at this time, let me suggest another approach
for you to take (assuming you haven't already gone through this process)...

Get inside your desktop computer case (after pulling the A/C plug from your
wall socket) and remove (disconnect) all peripheral devices including your
hard drive(s), optical drive(s), sound card, etc. Disconnect all storage
devices, printers, and any other devices connected to the machine.

So that all you'll be working with is your motherboard, processor, heat
sink, RAM, video card, and power supply. Better yet, should your motherboard
be equipped with onboard video/graphics capability, disconnect your video
card from the system. Just make sure your BIOS setting (should there be one)
reflects that onboard graphics/video is enabled.

Reconnect your A/C cord and power on the system.

What happens? Do you get a "normal" screen display? No error messages or
strange notations?

Can you access your BIOS without any difficulty at this point and review the
CMOS settings? Can you check the hardware monitor in the BIOS to determine
that all temps are within normal range?

Assuming all is well at this point leave the system powered on for the next
hour or so, checking to see if anything untoward shows up.

Using your reset button, try powering down & up a few times to determine if
there are any problems there.

Should all appear well at this point this is an indication that there's
nothing wrong with the basic components of your system. While it's not
absolutely definitive that this is so, it's a very strong indication that
something else is amiss.

Does your machine have a floppy disk drive? If so do you have a DOS boot
disk and give that a try?

I believe you indicated you used the HDD diagnostic utility from the disk's
manufacturer and it checked out OK. You're absolutely sure it's properly
connected & configured? Did you change its data cable (IDE or SATA)? Try
connecting it to another IDE channel or SATA connector if it's a SATA HDD?
Any chance of using another HDD?

In any event, install one device at a time and see if you can narrow down
what's causing your problem.
Anna

Windows XP Support >> bootup problem ok,

switching back to the
former ram module
was an excellent idea.

the beeping is a significant
clue.

i did read in a post that you
are mechanically inclined, so
i do trust your sense of judgment
with your machine. and i
am confident that if it were
an easy problem, you would
have deduced it by now.

it would be a good idea
to check the mb manual
or the homesite to find
out what the beeps signify.

the beeps were engineered
into the machine and they have
a special significance when they
incur.

there is a possibility that
the cmos may have to
be re-flashed. this process,
if required, is described
at the homesite including
the file to use.

another thing that might
be of interest is to reset
the cmos. it entails removing
the cmos battery for about
20 minutes or so. but again,
check out the latest information
at the homesite. the battery
can be easily be replaced
with a new one.

i'm just curious but
has your clock been keeping
good time? is the time inside
the bios menu accurate?

also, is your harddrive
jumper set to master, slave
or master/slave? i know it
connected ok because in
one of your postings you
mentioned setting the HD0.

--

db Â·Â´Â¯`Â·.Â¸. , . .Â·Â´Â¯`Â·..><)))Âº>`Â·.Â¸Â¸.Â·Â´Â¯`Â·.Â¸.Â·Â´Â¯`Â·...Â¸><)))Âº>Â¸.
><)))Âº>Â·Â´Â¯`Â·.Â¸. , . .Â·Â´Â¯`Â·.. ><)))Âº>`Â·.Â¸Â¸.Â·Â´Â¯`Â·.Â¸.Â·Â´Â¯`Â·...Â¸><)))Âº>

.

"twizzle350" <EMail@HideDomain.com> wrote in message
news:EMail@HideDomain.com...
> hi db
> i have just removed the 1gig ram stick. and installed a 512 ram stick,
> results are still the same on bootup, eg: mem test ok
> system clock ddr333
> checking for ide
> drives
> system stops/hangs
> hd light flashing every second with a beeping sound every second coming
> from the motherboard?
> 3 resets to bootup today.
> bios set to optimised defaults, as per mb manual.

Windows XP Support >> bootup problem hi w_tom
i have more testing results
will not boot straight into safe mode, only after a few resets.

voltage figures before power up when
power switched on
4x purple wires= 2x single 1x double 00.03v 3.4v
no green wire?
grey 4.69v
18.7v
orange 5.5v
5.13v
4x red wires 39.5v
4.97v
yellow 00.00v
12.69v

if you need me to carry out more tests.
make your request specific eg: DO A then TRY b etc

thanks

Windows XP Support >> bootup problem On Jan 1, 9:12=A0am, twizzle350 <EMail@HideDomain.com>
wrote:
> i have more testing results
> will not boot =A0straight into safe mode, only after a few resets.
>
> voltage figures before power up =A0 =A0when power switched on
> 4x purple wires=3D 2x single =A01x double =A0 00.03v =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A03=
.4v
> no green wire?
> grey =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A04.69v =
=A0 =A0 =A0 18.7v
> orange =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 5.5v =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A05.13v
> 4x red wires =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 39.5v =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=
4.97v
> yellow =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A000.00v =
=A0 =A0 12.69v

These numbers imply the power supply is not using standard ATX wire
colors. Those voltages also make no sense as should be obvious from
the procedure.

For example, there must be green wire so that power supply can be
ordered on. So what is the wire color being used?

Red wire could be the +5V. But that voltage must be zero (not 39.5V)
when not on. Yellow wire is 12 volts - and is excessive when on.
Orange voltage at 5.5V is excessive when on or off. Grey wire should
never be 18.7 volts. And only one purple wire should exist.

Verify wire colors using this chart:
http://www.hardwarebook.net/connector/power/atxpower.html

For example, are your four purple wires really supposed to be red?
Your posted numbers make little sense and the 12 volts appears to be
too high. Before making definitive conclusions, first, all numbers
must make sense. Use the chart to locate where to measure any one of
yellow, red, orange, purple, green and gray wires. I suspect your
wires are not standard ATX colors. Also do not confuse volts (V) with
millivolts (mV).

Measurements must be when off and when power switch is pressed.
IOW, what does each voltage do when power switch is pressed. Does it
go to a constant voltage? Or does it rise and then fall after a
second? In your case, what voltages do one thing when the system does
not boot and do another thing when it does boot?

Windows XP Support >> bootup problem hi w_tom
my power connector has non std wirering coulors, so i will list the pin No`s
with what colour it should be.
pin 9 purple = 4.96v ---------- power swithed on = 4.96v
pin 14 green = 4.69v ---------- drops to = 18.7mv
pin 8 gray = 05.7mv -------- rising to = 5.13v
pins 1/2/11 orange = 00.9mv ------- rising to = 3.37v
pins 4/6/19/20 red = 39.4/6 mv ------ rising to = 4.98 / 5.00v
pin 10 yellow = 00.9mv ----------- rising to 13.76v drops
back to 12.53v

hope this helps

Windows XP Support >> bootup problem On Jan 1, 12:33 pm, twizzle350 <EMail@HideDomain.com>
wrote:
> pin 9 purple = 4.96v ---------- power swithed on = 4.96v
> pin 14 green = 4.69v ---------- drops to = 18.7mv
> pin 8 gray = 05.7mv -------- rising to = 5.13v
> pins 1/2/11 orange = 00.9mv ------- rising to = 3.37v
> pins 4/6/19/20 red = 39.4/6 mv ------ rising to = 4.98 / 5.00v
> pin 10 yellow = 00.9mv ----------- rising to 13.76v drops
> back to 12.53v

I assume these 'on' voltages are when it boots. Also helpful would be
these voltages when it does not boot.

These voltages are good (when stable) but I am not comfortable with
them. Whereas the five volts (red wire) is correct, both 3.3 and 12
volts are high to almost exceeding maximum. This implies your 5 volt
computer load is larger than what the power supply was intended. To
maintain 5 volts, apparently, the supply will then supply too much
voltage to 3.3 (orange) and 12 (yellow) wires.

Now for what may be a problem. The 12 volts rises excessively before
dropping back to a high but in spec 12.53. This is not good. Is this
spike even higher when the computer does not boot? Anything you do to
eliminate that overvoltage would make you system more reliable in the
long term.

Again, we don't have what voltages do when the computer does not
boot. That would be helpful to better understand your 'does not boot
the first three times' problem. A new power supply must not do that
'excessive 12 volts on power up'. New power supply may not solve
your booting problem. But new supply should eliminate this other
unacceptable excessive voltage (if not, then another problem exists
elsewhere). You may have two problems or this 'excessive 12 volts on
power up' may have created another problem. Eliminate the 'excessive
12 volts' problem, then use meter again to establish the integrity of
a modified power supply 'system'.

Again, before replacing the supply, first learn what those voltages
are when computer does not properly boot. Again, I assume these are
voltages when it does boot.

Meanwhile, we repair things mostly to learn (not to save money).
Some knowledge. The power supply controller must be powered even when
the computer is off. Therefore the purple wire keeps the power supply
controller operational.

Green wire is the power supply controller telling the power supply
to power on; voltage drops to near zero. Grey wire is monitoring
circuits inside power supply reporting back to the controller that all
voltages are good (I was hoping to see this signal not happen when
computer did not boot). CPU does not operate (does not boot) until
power supply controller sees this Power Good (grey wire) signal.

Generally, orange, red, and yellow wires have less than 2 seconds to
stabilize (and should never exceed maximum voltage). If not within
spec, then the power supply controller powers off computer, which may
be your problem.

Windows XP Support >> bootup problem

"w_tom" wrote:

On Jan 1, 12:33 pm, twizzle350 <EMail@HideDomain.com>
wrote:
pin 9 purple = 4.96v ---------- power swithed on = 4.96v
pin 14 green = 4.69v ---------- drops to = 18.7mv
pin 8 gray = 05.7mv -------- rising to = 5.13v
pins 1/2/11 orange = 00.9mv ------- rising to = 3.37v
pins 4/6/19/20 red = 39.4/6 mv ------ rising to = 4.98 / 5.00v
pin 10 yellow = 00.9mv ----------- rising to 13.76v drops
back to 12.53v

I assume these 'on' voltages are when it boots. Also helpful would be
these voltages when it does not boot.

hi w_tom
i am afraid that these figures are the same for booting and non booting.
the pwr supply that is fitted, is an etech mtp400,

i can now follow your replies ok :-) please bear in mind that i do not have
any computer diagnostic skills, ( motor machanic yes )

by the sound of it my pwr supply needs replacing for a start ??
if so, i have been looking at a thermaltake 500w ?

i await your reply.
many thanks mike

Windows XP Support >> bootup problem On Jan 2, 1:23 pm, twizzle350 <EMail@HideDomain.com>
wrote:
> i am afraid that these figures are the same for booting and non booting.
> the pwr supply that is fitted, is an etech mtp400,

Same skills used for electronics is also how I learned to fix so
many automobiles AND discover why those failures were directly
traceable to management. Cars designed by bean counters who did not
even know how to drive. What happens when all cars of that year are
built with no valve guides? I did not just learn how to do a valve
job. I asked some embarrassing questions (as I do with computers) to
learn those missing valve guides were directly traceable to Henry Ford
and his cost control programs. Learned because one should never just
fix something. One should also know why so that the problem is
solved; symptoms are not cured.

Back to your current problem. If those same voltage readings occur
during no boot, then power supply is not the component causing boot
failure. That excessive voltage on 12 volts during power up would not
harm electronics. But due to a slow response by multimeters, then
possible is a 12 volts well exceeding 13.76. Fact that 12 volts is
excessive on startup means the power supply should be replaced - even
if it does not cause boot failure. But the immediate reason for your
boot failures is elsewhere.

The list of parts that can shutdown a computer is short. Memory,
CPU, power supply system, sound card, video controller, and some
motherboard functions. But in your case, the shutdown is also
occurring (if I remember correctly) before Windows boots (eliminating
sound card) and sometimes before BIOS even executes a memory test
(eliminating memory). We have eliminated power supply system as a
suspect. CPU works just fine once system is booted (eliminates CPU).
Video controller only works in the simplest (Mode 3 or 7) operation
when booting. Video card is possible but not a likely reason for
failure. Only left are some motherboard functions (with a remote
possibility that video controller is the suspect).

Why is the motherboard defective? Did that spiking 12 volts create
a motherboard failure? Well we would know better if the 12 volts
could be monitored with an oscilloscope. That probably will not
happen. You could try any other video controller just to eliminate
that remote possibility. However it appears you have two suspects.
One that may or may not have been causing your boot failures (power
supply) and another that is the only remaining suspect (motherboard).

How to select a power supply? Do not get lost in the hype over
watts. 500 watts is typically gross overkill. But those who don't
know electricity will hype watts and dollars as the only power supply
metric. Those who learned from free markets have better benchmarks.
Any decent product will provide a long list of numeric specs in
writing. Only 1% of us will understand those specs (just like cars).
But if those specs are provided, then the 1% who know can 'blow the
whistle'.

How to sell power supplies that do not conform to minimum
standards? Hide the numbers. Don't provide the long list of specs so
that the 1% have no facts. Then many functions required even in 1970
and required by Intel specs can be forgotten to increase profits.
Some examples of numeric specs that should be in writing:
Specification compliance: ATX 2.03 & ATX12V v1.1
Short circuit protection on all outputs
Over voltage protection
Over power protection
100% hi-pot test
100% burn in, high temperature cycled on/off
PFC harmonics compliance: EN61000-3-2 + A1 + A2
EMI/RFI compliance: CE, CISPR22 & FCC part 15 class B
Safety compliance: VDE, TUV, D, N, S, Fi, UL, C-UL & CB
Hold up time, full load: 16ms. typical
Efficiency; 100-120VAC and full range: >65%
Dielectric withstand, input to frame/ground: 1800VAC, 1sec.
Dielectric withstand, input to output: 1800VAC, 1sec.
Ripple/noise: 1%
MTBF, full load @ 25=B0C amb.: >100k hrs

Such power supplies should also costs about $60 retail. That does
not say a $60 power supply is sufficient. Such reverse logic does not
apply. It only says the full retail price of a supply containing
required functions would be at least $60.

A more than sufficient supply could be 350 watts. That same supply
may be rated by another manufacturer as 500 watts. And neither
manufacturer was lying. It's called number games. The game works
only when most customers (many who would make recommendations) don't
know technology; do only as a bean counter would do; compare numbers
without knowing what those numbers mean.

Useful are current (amp) numbers for each voltage. Start with
current numbers for the original supply. Based upon your meter
numbers, the +5V (red wire) had a heavier load (compared to its max
current number). Your new supply should meet the same current numbers
listed for 3.3, 5, and 12 volts. And hopefully, the new supply has an
even larger number for the 5 volt current spec. If not, well, at
least the new supply should have same or greater current numbers
compared to the original supply. Ignore the watt number. Instead
review current numbers for each voltage.

As noted earlier, when you provided numbers, then others with better
knowledge can add additional facts.

When the supply is replaced (do it before replacing motherboard),
then take voltage readings to confirm that new supply is functional
and sufficient - the two minute procedure - and does not spike the 12
volts.

A final observation. 12 volts powers another power supply system
installed for and located adjacent to the CPU. Those upright
cylinders are called electrolytic capacitors. One type of failure
means the capacitors bulge - top pushes out. A visual examination
may provide some useful information. Pictures of a failing capacitor:
http://www.badcaps.net/images/caps/kt7/image005.png

Provided from numbers identify two suspects, better information for
selecting a new power supply unique to your computer's load, lessons
learned from the failure, and a shorter list of things to examine. As
I said early on, your posts will only be as helpful as informatiion
provided. Two minutes to obtain numbers results in much new
information.

Windows XP Support >> bootup problem hi w_tom

i have now got a half decent pwr supply akasa 500w active pfc atx2.2,
before installing the new 1, i removed the mb battery to clear the cmos.
here are the new testing results.

purple 4.97v pwr swithched on 4.96v
green 4.96v 17.0mv
gray 03.0mv 4.76/81v
orange 00.0mv 3.33v
red 62.8mv 4.77v
yellow 00.1mv 12.636v

it booted straight into xp :-)
now going to do a fresh clean install, after all this trouble. ( fingers
crossed)
what is your view on those figure`s

Windows XP Support >> bootup problem On Jan 7, 5:15=A0pm, twizzle350 <EMail@HideDomain.com>
wrote:
> i have now got a half decent pwr supply =A0akasa 500w active pfc atx2.2,
> before installing the new 1, i removed the mb battery to clear the cmos.
> here are the new testing =A0results.
>
> purple =A04.97v =A0 =A0 pwr swithched on =A0 =A04.96v
> green =A0 4.96v =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A017.0mv =A0
> gray =A0 =A0 03.0mv =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 4.76/81v
> orange =A000.0mv =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 3.33v
> red =A0 =A0 =A0 62.8mv =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=
=A0 =A0 4.77v
> yellow =A0 00.1mv =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 12.636v
> it booted straight into xp :-)
> now going to do a fresh clean install, after all this trouble.

Only most numbers look good.

Red wire (+5V) is too low. That voltage must exceed 4.87. Also
interesting is the high 12 V. Well it appears that you have a large
5 volt load that may be too large for that 500 watt supply. By trying
desperately to provide enough voltage, the power supply is running the
12 volts high. Your numbers suggest the supply's current rating for
5V (red wire) is too small on this supply. What was the +5 V currrent
number for the original supply and what is the current rating for this
new supply?